Guardsman Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hi guys, Recently I have decided to go back to playing WEGO as I am looking for PBEM opponents so wanted to brush up on the skills required. God it is hard after being a RT convert. Requires a lot more planning rather than "I'll send my blokes there and when something happens I'll pause and reassess" type attitude. Anyhows, I digress. I've decided to start playing through the scenarios from the start in order to develop said skills. Started with Abu Susah, and within the first minute spotted some enemy units. They were all out in the open, and not something I remember from playing it originally. Ceasefired, and reviewed the map to find all of the enemy had been displaced from their original positions in buildings etc, and sort of offset into the open. I opened the scen up in the editor to confirm the intended positions of the enemy, and saved it just in case. Started it up again, saved at the deployment stage and immediately ceasefired to see the troops were positioned correctly. They were so I started my first turn, only to find the troops had teleported back into the open. This problem obviously makes the scenario a waste of time to play. Was wondering if anyone else had encountered this or if there is a fix that I have overlooked? Any advice would be most welcome, Regards, Darren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankD3 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I tried the same mission before and after the patch and noticed the same thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I see this as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabal23 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Here we go again. Version 1.22 coming to a pc near you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 We dont know yet... Maybe we are doing something wrong here... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I took a look at the Abu Susah scenario. Here's what you're looking at. In the AI if you 'paint in' initial Group setup zones that introduces a degree of randomness in forces setup. Group 1 will set up somewhere within the painted zone. If the designer selects 'Mixed' in the menu then the troops may appear on the roof, or the ground floor, or on a middle floor level. If your AI initial setup goes unpainted the forces wil remain locked in place. If the designer selects "Roofs" the forces will stay on the roofs. Abu Susah has "Mixed" setup zones that are painted-in. That's the cause of the randomness. The AI's working as it should, though perhaps not as the designer intended- that was one of the first scenarios built in the game and the learning curve was pretty steep initially. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Thanks MikeyD I suspected as much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Abu Susah has "Mixed" setup zones that are painted-in. That's the cause of the randomness. Actually, just to clarify MikeyD's comment, it won't make much difference if you select 'Lower Floors', 'Upper Floors' or 'Rooftops' for the AI group set up zone. If the AI group set up area includes a building and other terrain the AI will often set up in the terrain, but not always. That's what we're seeing in this mission. I just set it up a couple of times in Scenario Author Design Mode and watched the AI do its magic. I am very glad you brought this up because I ran some tests on AI set ups this morning and found that if the AI will choose a building when the AI set up area is one square and that square includes a part of the building regardless of the Floors option. In the past it would always deploy outside of the building. This has been fixed. I think it would be a good idea for the Beta team to have a look at some of the missions that come with the original game as some of them have definitely been 'porked' by the massive improvements to the game engine (especially AI dynamic use of artillery in V1.10, AI Infantry 'butting out' behaviour in V1.11, and RED Commanders abilty to call in artillery in v1.21). Especially those where the RED side is on the defence. 'Abu Susah' is one that has suffered over time whereas 'Al Amarah' still seems to work just fine. Since folks that buy the original game now are getting a few 'porked' missions with the game, it wouldn't be a terrible waste of anybody's time to fix them up for v1.22 or V1.30. It's surprising how few missions actually came with the original game, especially when compared to the Brit module. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 Thanks alot to all that answered. I must admit I haven't played the scenarios for some time, as been occupied with the campaigns that came with the modules, and of course the fantastic red v red stuff that has been created by the guys on the forum. The answers given have cleared the problem up for me. As suggested though, for someone buying this game now, although receiving the V1.21 (which I feel is head and shoulders above any other game of it's type), they may feel that the battles are a disappointment and do not present much of a challenge. I would offer to tweak them myself, but after many hours fiddling with the scen editor, it is best left to people who have half an idea of what they are doing! Regards, Darren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hi guys, ... I opened the scen up in the editor to confirm the intended positions of the enemy, and saved it just in case. Started it up again, saved at the deployment stage and immediately ceasefired to see the troops were positioned correctly. They were so I started my first turn, only to find the troops had teleported back into the open. (emphasis added) ... Regards, Darren The AI setup information seems to explain everything except this... Had the AI not setup when the OP checked? After he was done with his deployment had the AI not deployed? And if the AI had deployed why would it re-deploy from a saved game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 The AI setup information seems to explain everything except this... Had the AI not setup when the OP checked? After he was done with his deployment had the AI not deployed? The AI controlled side doesn't choose it's AI plan until you hit the button to start the game. If you play a mission in Scenario Author Mode, you'll see that the AI units start in the positions they were given in the Editor by the Scenario Designer. Then, when you hit START, you will see AI instantly teleport its units to the positons at the beginning of the first turn. In Abu Susah, there is only one AI plan and it's not a 'Author-Set up' plan. Almost every single mission I've ever designed has at least two AI plans, and one of them is the 'Paper Tiger Set up'. And if the AI had deployed why would it re-deploy from a saved game? If you save the game during the Set Up phase the AI won't have chosen its plan yet so you'll see it 'redeploy'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, but what I've read here gives me some worries. Is it really the case that many older scenarios are more or less broken by the latest patch(es)? If so, how do we know which ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, but what I've read here gives me some worries. Is it really the case that many older scenarios are more or less broken by the latest patch(es)? If so, how do we know which ones? No. There were might be a few where the AI set-up zones and AI Plan zones have not been done properly but otherwise scenarios should work fine. If you notice any oddness with a scenario I'd just flag it up. The issue raised here affects one scenario in which the designer has made an error with the AI set-up and AI Plan zones. Assuming other scenarios don't have the same foobar in the design then they should be OK. FWIW I've gone and checked the scenarios I've done and from what I can make out there is no issue. If anything some of them are now harder due to game engine changes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Thanks for the reply! Glad to hear it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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