bitchen frizzy Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Haven't seen a thread on this one yet: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090217/wl_afp/britainfrancenuclearweapons Could it really have been pure accident that they collided? That seems improbable, but I guess if enough subs cruise around for enough time at approximately the same depth it's bound to happen. I'm hoping for some grog input. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I saw this reported also in Wiki News this morning but I have nothing to add at this time. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hilarious, isn't it? I find it hard to believe that any sub captain would deliberately bump into another, so I find accidental contact to be the most likely explanation. The funniest bit was British opposition MPs demanding that all steps be taken to prevent a recurrence, and also raising the spectre of a nuclear explosion. Firstly, the (stated) reason this happened was because both subs were so exceptional at their jobs of remaining undetected. The obvious way to solve that would be to make the subs more detectable ... but somehow that doesn't seem like a great idea, overall. I suppose the Navy could also publish planned patrol routes and timings on public websites, but that doesn't seem like such a great idea either. Perhaps they could spend another couple of scadzillion dollars on improving detection capabilities (in addition to the scadzillions already being spent on that), but I doubt that's quite what these MPs had in mind. Secondly, the chance of a nuclear explosion in any plausible, non-Kettlerian collision is very close to zero (0). Weapons are designed to be very very safe until a deliberate decision is made to use them. The more dangerous the weapon, the more safety it has built in. I.e., a howitzer is safer than a rifle is safer than a pistol). Right at the top of that safety chain are nuclear weapons. The chance of nuclear material leaking is higher of course, but AFAIK the only times that's happened have been due to significant procedural or design errors. Not bumping into things underwater. Thirdly, this is the first(?) ever accidental underwater collision between subs. Trying to prevent such rare and unusual events is just a waste of time. Especially since the conditions necessary for such an event to occur (i.e., very slow silent running) pretty much ensure that any such event is likely to be far more embarrassing than it is dangerous. Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrocles Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Amazing!! What are the odds!? :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Finite. As someone said - they're so quiet they jsut didn't know the other was there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Brown trousers all round, I'll bet. An unexpected collision of that magnitude has to be something of a shock to experience - particularly if everyone was on the job, doing their best to detect another craft out there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I still think they noticed each other. And one of them was Cowboy enough to start stalking his contact, until they ran into each other. A 100% "out of the blue" no-clue never seen accident I don't belive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 EU should disarm the Brits and the French, problem solved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The French obviously ignored the Seaway Code 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I still think they noticed each other. And one of them was Cowboy enough to start stalking his contact, until they ran into each other. I don't think you're supposed to stalk anyone with a missile submarine and if a captain ever did something like that his career would be over. The purpose of them is to be free of any contacts so that if the orders come, they can fire their missiles with minimum interference. Attack submarines are a different category. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Anyway, the main point is that the Royal Navy has once again trounced Johnny Frog. (Slightly more damage on the garlic guzzler boat.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Surely a pyrrhic victory though. How many times can the RN do this before they run out of boomers? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Three more times. How many boomers have the Frogs got? Edit: Apparently the Frogs only havge (had) four boomers too. So, in a fender-bender-war of attrition the two sides will come out even, with Great Britain once again thwarting a perfidious French attempt to gain European hegemony. Sing with me: Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves, Britons never never never shall be slaves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 ...a perfidious French attempt... No, no, no. It's Albion that is perfidious. The French are sneaky. They also don't use deodorants. How one reconciles those two attributes is an exercise left to the student. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 bitchen frizzy, What a deftly turned phrase! A boomer's job is to be invisible and inaudible, fighting only when absolutely unavoidable. This unfortunate and exceedingly low probability encounter seems like the famous Thucydides quote: "A collision at sea can ruin your whole day," with the added fillip of big time national prestige and national security issues. As for sub on sub collisions, there've been plenty, usually when conducting close-in shadowing, sometimes in the other side's harbor! Not surprisingly, we seldom hear of such things. For great reads on Cold War classified sub ops, please see BLIND MAN'S BLUFF and THE SILENT WAR. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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