Lanzfeld Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Not sure if this has been asked... When I am clearing a building it is not very easy to determine if there is a door from one room to the next. Sometimes my troops will go through an invisible door directly even if one is not depicted and other times they go up a floor and outside on the roof then down into the room from above on an invisible staircase! Is this a known problem and is it just a matter of the scenario designer using the correct "wall type" with a visible door or solid wall? It is in the excellent demo quite a bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 This is a hack to fix unintentional wall configurations. In earlier versions (going back... prior to v1.05???) the game required that both walls have doors in order to pass through. The practical problem with that is too often the scenario designer put a door on one wall but forgot to put one on the other. This could cause some really big problems for certain maps/situations, so the request was put in that if there is a door it was intended for the unit to pass through and so it should be allowed to. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 So are you saying that if there is a door on one side of the wall but not the other side then the AI will go up and through the roof or through the door that is not visible? sorry...kinda confused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Think of it this way with "||" representing two abutting walls: DOOR || DOOR = passable DOOR || NO DOOR = passable (in earlier versions this equalled non-passable) NO DOOR || NO DOOR = non-passable If there isn't a means of passing between through the wall then the TacAI will reroute your unit in a way that makes the most amount of sense. Sometimes this means running up one floor, perhaps the roof, and back down... sometimes outside and back inside. It really depends on the circumstances of how the buildings are configured. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sorry, but I have to contradict you on this, Steve...here are screens of my infantry running through a wall between two buildings which is solid on either side, no doors, windows, or anything. Of course you will have to believe me that it is the same wall seen from both sides in the shots, but I assure you, it is: The wall from one side, with my squad already well into it...the wall hasn't even become transparent, which adds to the 'beheaded grunt' effect...clearly a solid wall. First shot from the other side, the squad is still performing its Houdini act. On this side the wall is transparent, though. Finally, the squad has completely crossed into the second building. The wall is now no longer transparent, and very obviously also solid. I'm not complaining or anything, this has only happened to me once or twicesince I've been playing. Happened to catch it this once (Abandoned Airfield, TF Thunder Campaign), and stored the screens for a rainy day, kinda. That's how much it bothers me, anyway...not enough to have posted when it happened . There has been another thread on similar behaviour before, but I can't find it and IIRC correctly it was argued away as having to do with a low wall intersecting the solid building wall in question. Anyhow, just wanted to pop this in since your attention was on this thread just now, Steve. Any ideas as to what might cause this? I can send these screens to beta testers as well if it helps, but I have no save game since it was in RT play. Don't know whether it would be repeatable either. Regards, stoex 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You can see in the last picture that the entered building has one open wall, which is treated like a wall with a door. Ie. in that last picture you don't see that house's inside wall, it's the other house's outside wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Oh, duh....thanks Sergei. I had never wondered about the nice interior decor. You are right of course . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missinginreality Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 am i missing something though? maybe I need a duh too, but in Stoex's pic; there is a solid interveaning wall without a door, so they shouldn't be able to go through should they? Yes the entered builidng has an open wall, which is treated as a wall with a door; but the exiting building has a solid wall and no door doesn't it? So they shouldn't be able to pass? Ah...walls shmallss 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 missinginreality, It seems that when two buildings are touching, then the rules that Steve stipulated in his post apply. Expanded by the explanation that ANY building side that is the equivalent of a door (meaning a door, a blasted wall or no wall at all) qualifies the two adjoining buildings as being connected on the interior. Only ONE of the two connected buildings needs to have an opening to create interior passability. This is how I understand it, and it seems fine to me....though it is visually somewhat counterintuitive at times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missinginreality Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yea but Steve's post: DOOR || DOOR = passable DOOR || NO DOOR = passable (in earlier versions this equalled non-passable) NO DOOR || NO DOOR = non-passable related to two walls being existent. Stoex in your pic there's one solid wall between the two buildings so there 'shouldn't' be any way through. As far as I'm understanding it Steve wasn't addressing your point of a single wall with no door; only a solid wall abutting a wall with a door that they made a 'hack' to allow passable, which is sensible. Your post and pics brings up another point entirely which is units running through a solid wall without any doors. I'm not sure Steve intended to extarapolate the theory to cover a single solid wall against no wall. Sorry if I'm belabouring this point but after all the trouble you went to with the screenies I just wanted to get clear about it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 From Steve's post, replace DOOR with PASSAGE (of any kind). "No wall" qualifies for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missinginreality Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Ah simultaneous post with Moon; OK, now all becomes clear thank you. no more duh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 okay..... I get it now. Thanks to all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Cool. As I said, this was a code hack to address unintentional, and unfortunately fairly common, problems with building design mistakes. We had mountains of "bad pathing" bug reports which basically boiled down to the player not noticing that there was blockage on the other side of a wall. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeA Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Is this related to the "running through walls" behaviour I mentioned in this thread: 1117066 Or is that something completely different? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Nope, that's different for sure. I posted a response in your thread. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You can see in the last picture that the entered building has one open wall Don't feel sorry for having missed that - the "open interior wall = door" thing was a major "D'oh!" moment for several longtime scenario designers I know not too long ago. I had three scenario maps in the works that I had to go back over, checking all the butting building walls. One scenario designer who was working on a big city map hung himself by his mouse cord at the prospect of having to rework his map! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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