Arty "sniping"?

[Fenix]

Well, i've got a question here i'vee asked myself a few times... Let's imagine the situation:

One USMC arty observer has just found an enemy T72. The observer is in high ground, not being fired at and not being discovered yet and has direct and clear LOS at the target, situated at about 500-750 meters away from him. I decide to send an artillery strike with my 81mm mortars (could be 155mm howitzers, can't remember it right now ) and configure them like this:

Point target, 1 gun, Heavy Mission, and... which should be the duration? I'd like to make sure the tank is destroyed with just one fire mission, but i don't want to spend half of my ammo while doing so. What would you pick?

[purpheart23]

Medium. That way you should only lose around a quarter of your ammunition and have a fair shot at taking out the tank.

[stoex]

Yeah, medium should do you well. Short will work sometimes, but not always. And with medium, if you hit the tank with an early round, you can always cease fire and save at least some of the rest of the ammo. If you decide on short for tactical reasons, use both guns.

[Fenix]

Well, i don't rely on that "cease fire" function as i have noticed, at least in early stages of the game (1.07 mostly), that even when the cease fire order was given, arty just kept wasting some ammo, that's why now i try to use the most exact duration.

I don't know if this has been changed in the current version, or if it hasn't because is more accurate and reallistic :S.

[Flanker15]

If you target a building or a vehicle directly with support the mission will automatically cease when it is destroyed. So you can put it on maximum if you want.

With the cease fire order there is a delay where in the battery will keep firing and shells that were fired before the order will still arrive (which for heavy artillary can be a little while).

[Fenix]

Damn, didn't know that. It certainly solves the issue... Thanks for the tip Flanker15, and thanks to stoex and purpheart23 for your responses.

[stoex]

Flanker15, I hadn't noticed that support missions cease when the target is destroyed. I rarely use my arty to take out tanks...but thanks for the info, nice to know!

[MikeyD]

At least until recently I've had a 99% failure rate knocking out armor with artillery, even worse with mortars. I've left a moonscape beneath that darned T72 and it still returns fire! Perhaps it improved a bit with the last couple patches. You're significantly more likely to kill/disable LIGHT armor. Of course 'mobility kills' don't count if you're targeting a tank that wasn't going to be moving anywhere regardless.

[stoex]

MikeyD, I agree, and neglected to mention before, that I wouldn't use anything smaller than 105mm to try to knock out armour with arty. I did however mention that I hardly ever use arty against armour anyway - and I expand that comment with 'because I think it's a great whopping waste of perfectly good shells'.

------SLIGHT SPOILER ALERT FOR MARINES CAMPAIGN----------

The last time I can remember doing this was in the Semper Fi campaign, Mission 1, when I took out the static tank with an arty strike from the 'naval battery'. But that was because I had no other possible assets to use against it and the shells to spare, so what the haystack .

[Flanker15]

Hang on! I did a test to make sure about targeting vehicles!

Your arty won't cease fire when targeting vehicles and the vehicle is knocked out only with targeting buidings will it stop.

Anyway for targeting vehicles with arty I use the shortest salvo for IFV/APCs and the second shortest for tanks. If you use "armor" target type you almost always get hits very quickly and 1 81mm is enough to take out a BMP and sometimes even a T-72. (I've taken out a T-90 with a 81mm once)!

[Fenix]

I rarely use my arty to take out tanks

Neither do i, but in the mission i'm using as example i had only a few infantry platoons without javelin missiles or even a single vehicle. My options were:

Begin a long and probably hard flanking manouver with one of my squads and praying the tank don't see them until they can safely use their AT-4s (and pray again to destroy or incapacitate the tank on one single shot);

Or using my arty .

Call me lazy, but i'd like to do it the simple way xD

EDIT: stoex, the 1st mission of the marines campaign was the example i was using . Then it wasn't a 81 mm mortar, but naval batteries.

[Gen. J-sun]

Regarding ceasefire, it does not apply to rounds in the air for obvious reasons. With a hang time of about 30-40 seconds you can expect 2-3 more salvos after the check fire.

[RadioactiveMan]

SPOILERS

The last time I can remember doing this was in the Semper Fi campaign, Mission 1, when I took out the static tank with an arty strike from the 'naval battery'. But that was because I had no other possible assets to use against it and the shells to spare, so what the haystack .

There are actually quite a few instances of stationary tanks (and BMPs) throughout the Marine Campaign. You don't seem to be given many on-map anti-tank weapons- except for SMAWs, but those seem kind of crappy against tanks- and so I've been using artillery and helicopters as my primary anti tank weapons. Works pretty good, as the grenade launcher-heavy platoons can handle just about everything else on their own...

[theFightingSeabee]

I've played since 1.0 and 1.10 Marines was the first time I was ever able to get anti-armor artillery to actually kill a tank.

I usually use short bursts so I don't waste rounds, but if you miss, you waste even more on the next round of spotting shots. So it probably is a better tactic to shoot until you get it. Thanks!

[SD Smack]

I've actually had pretty good luck with firing artillery at armor. I usually put my duration on short though. I don't like wasting ammo on armor either, plus there could be a better use for it around the next corner. But over all I don't use arty as my primary source of anti-armor (obviously). And this is all from the US perspective. Has anyone tried it from Red side. I usually have little luck with Syrian artillery. To long to start firing and rarely accurate enough to hit a vehicle.

[stoex]

-Flanker: Thanks for the test and update!

-Fenix: I think we are saying more or less the same thing (talking about the same mission anyway )...when arty is all you have against a tank, use it. Also in those missions where you get 2 or 3 batteries of heavy howitzers which have huge amounts of ammo, use it against ANYTHING lol

-RadioactiveMan: I think SMAWs suck overall, particularly against armour. They're OK against infantry but haven't got a lot of ammo, or precision, or range...Choppers on the other hand are great against vehicles, particularly large numbers of them - if I have the time to call them in.

-SD Smack: I HATE Syrian arty for its delay and utter lack of precision. If I can't figure out a good place to plop it preplanned, I usually don't bother at all

[Apocal]

-RadioactiveMan: I think SMAWs suck overall, particularly against armour. They're OK against infantry but haven't got a lot of ammo, or precision, or range

SACRILEGE!

Seriously though, the SMAW was designed with typical assault duties in mind, i.e. cracking open enemy fortifications. That it has a anti-tank round available is mostly secondary. At least using AT4s you can pray for miracles with a volley.

...Choppers on the other hand are great against vehicles, particularly large numbers of them - if I have the time to call them in.

I generally just call them in right off the bat. No reason to wait really.

[stoex]

Hehe, I knew someone was gonna dislike my statement about the SMAW. It has its uses, for sure, and a 2-man team is always good for scouting or occupying an objective .

About the helos....I do like to be reasonably sure that there is something for them to hit in the 400m radius before I call them in - you can lose valuable time for the next call if you sic 'em on an empty field. The other time factor is of course the spotting unit. Eyes on target need to be a JTAC, FO or at least an officer. Grunts get put on hold so long its not worth it except for static tanks.

Makes me wonder, though...what tape does the Army/USMC play to you while you're waiting for your connection, sitting in a trench with a platoon of T-90's advancing on you? Do they go with some classic Vivaldi? Or maybe death metal to keep you in that fighting spirit? Elevator music? Or do they try to make the best of it by having a friendly female voice read excerpts from field manuals? If you're using an RPDA for coms they might even give you a low-res video of 'More Cowbell'....'Who's on First?' also comes to mind...no, wait, if it sounds like that it's probably actually the dispatcher. Which explains the 13-minute delay ....

[dan/california]

The overwhelming use for the SMAW is that the number of SMAW rounds you have is the number of individual rooms/buildings that you can take for free. Target light the target structure, fire one SMAW round, and assault the room with a regular squad. All they have to do is finish off the poor, deaf, stunned, cowering *^$%$ on the floor. They can hump it back to the AAV over and over agian. In scenarios with plentiful ammo I don't do it any other way.

And while it anti tank effectiveness is questionable, its anti APC effect is devastating.

[stoex]

Don't know, dan...

My SMAW guys tend to miss stationary APCs at 150m, buildings at 200m. At that range the Marines squads are poking all kinds of holes in those same things with their AT4s/LAWs. AND shredding the crews with small arms as they bug out.

[dan/california]

I would certainly agree that 200m is the maximum effective range, but inside of that mine seem golden most of the time with veteran experience level Marines anyway. Besides in MOUT 3/4 of your shots are across the street, basically. By using the SMAW to suppress buildings before assaulting them I preserve the squads ammo and attention for what they find inside.

The truly long range reach out and touch them that comes from Javelins and armor are the one thing the Marines really come up short on, Although the 60mm mortars make up for a lot.

I am curious about the cost of a round, I assume they are a tiny fraction of a Javelin. Also the Marines may be planning on replacing them with the new Spike missile that is in late stage development. It is still a fraction of the price of a Javelin, but ranges at least a kilometer or two. Its last test firing was a success.

[bassplayer192837]

although artillary is one way of getting rid of armor i always found it easier to use anti-tank waponry but i guess if thats out the of the question i would use the artillary. but what if the tank moves somewhere before the first wave of shells get there?

will you call another artillary strike?

[Paper Tiger]

but what if the tank moves somewhere before the first wave of shells get there?

will you call another artillary strike?

If you made the tank a POINT TARGET when you set up the artillery strike, your FOS will track that particular tank until it goes out of his LOS. If you set it up as an AREA TARGET and the units move out of the target zone then that's a waste.

BTW, mortars are very good at killing Red tanks. I've been using this tactic with varying degrees of success for a long time now, certainly more than 6 months. However helicopters are my favourite tank killers.

[Gen. J-sun]

I can't believe it. I just tested that and I was knocking out tanks with 120mm mortars, that seems wrong...is it?

[Chainsaw]

I can't believe it. I just tested that and I was knocking out tanks with 120mm mortars, that seems wrong...is it?

Dunno if the US army has it but my tiny little Swedish army has STRIX, wich is armour seeking 120mm mortar grenades. expensive but they do work, like ewery 3rd round fired actually hits a target.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strix_mortar_round