CMSF Pro's & Con's

[Jacquess]

I have recently bought ToW and am very happy with it, now i have the bug and am thinking of also getting CMSF.

I would like to ask a few questions:

1. Is CMSF gameplay similar to that of ToW;

2. Does CMSF have a points system for upgrading or buying new units before a mission;

3. Can you decide which units you want to take into a mission?

4. Can you improve the skills of individual units like tank gunners, drivers etc.

5. Reading through soem of the posts on this forum gives me the impression that some players have huge problems parts of CMSF - should these views be taken as completely negaitive of the game or these just constructive criticisms?

[zwobot]

1. I don't know but assume it is not

2. no, you are dependant on the campaign/scenario designer's decisions on equipment

3. no, see 2.

4. no

5. your question is not specific enough to give a valid answer; what "huge problems" do you refer to?

[Jacquess]

Some of the problems raised apparently relate to poorly performing syrian equipment vs good American etc

[Paper Tiger]

To answer Qs1-4, I haven't played ToW but just quickly looking at the Game Features web page and comparing it to what I know about CMSF, I think it's safe to say that they are completely different games. It's a squad level game with teams and vey occassionally, one man units (spies) If you want to compare CMSF to something, you'd be bettter comparing it to CMBO, CMBB and CMAK.

It wouldn't be unfair to say that some of the negative posts you might read are written by people who have done just that and are disappointed that CMSF isn't the game they wanted from the creators of the CMx1 series. But that's not to say that some of their complaints weren't valid (note the use of the past tense there folks). Strangely enough, most of the complaints you hear nowadays focus more on how the game fails to model reality in every little detail and not on bugs anymore.

With regards to poorly performing Syrian equipment v first class high tech US forces, well of course there's going to be a bit of an imbalance because the game realistically models these two forces and that's the way it is in real life. (And of course, that pisses of some folks because they'd have prefered BFC to set the new game in a different theatre. But it's BFC's game and it was their decision to make and some folks are just plain bitter that they didn't listen to them.) However, that imbalance doesn't prevent a lot of us from having a lot of fun playing it, and by that I mean serious and challenging fun, not just a lark blowing stuff up although you can do that too.

[Secondbrooks]

About Syrian crap. Which isn't problem, but the way they are supposed to work: Poorly. With few exceptions, such as Kornet and other modern gear.

Alteast i can't say that realisticaly we could expect bunch of older Syrian crap to perfom any better they do. Under creative and skillfull use of syrian equipment against dull and unskillfully acting US they might perform even well (getting flank shots etc), but that isn't always possible as terrain and opponent might have something to say about it. I think most scearios designed to be played as Syria also are hard but playable for Syria. It just requires lot more of understandment in how to put gear into good use. And maybe few retrys

However there is alot changes made in game. I'm re-playing campaign with newest version and it seems to be rather different experience when comparing to days CMSF was released.

[Jacquess]

thanks guys, i will then get CMSF as soon as possible!

[Pandur]

to bring it to a point, in TOW(got it too) you fight generaly a "symetrical conflict", here in CMSF you fight a "asymetrical" one. means both party are of unequal strenght and so have to fight in different ways.

the red gear on the lowest end is in some ways still questionable in its performance, and some other do it to, but generaly the balance is about right.

dont forgett you can play BLUE on BLUE and RED on RED too, where the latter is great fun.

some like BLUE on BLUE too, i never tried it.

[Falconander]

Just my two cents...

TOW was terrible and I shelved it after 2 days. The same is not true for CMSF which is a travesty to have their name even associated with TOW.

TOW had so much potential but a little too Sudden Strike-ish for my tastes.

Though I do like Sudden Strike when really bored...

The experience and traking of units/purchasing is the only saving grace to TOW.

[Moon]

Falsonander, you really should try out the TOW2 demo when we release it (not too far away actually). Many improvements over TOW1.

[Falconander]

Moon,

I'll pick it up when it comes out. I really want to like it. One thing that miffed me was the spawning of groups. So you could artillery/mortar a position on your approach to only have units spawn out of nowhere.

Not quite as much immersion as CMSF but I loved your purchase system. I have no clue why this was left out of CM games. But each road takes its own path and that is why I own as many games as I do.

To say I shelved a game means that there was just too much else to play at the time. I admit I think about playing it again.

The first addition to anything usually is not up to par especially if it had the "From the makers of Combat Mission..." plastered all over it. Having not found this board yet I was chomping at the bit.

Actually TOW led me back to CM with the downloads and purchasing Marines. So I have a lot to be thankful for with TOW.

I remember playing Shogun Total War. Compare that to the upcoming Empire Total War and you realize that my 5-6 games invested in that company was well worth it. Almost like a good wine, they get better with time.

Ok, since you mentioned it and the TOW forums are sparse, give an estimate for the demo for TOW2.....

[Moon]

Ok, since you mentioned it and the TOW forums are sparse, give an estimate for the demo for TOW2.....

I'm notoriously bad with estimates and this doesn't belong into this forum anyway, so I'll pass.

[Thomm]

CM:SF teaches a lot about contemporary military hardware that I have never ever used in any other game before. That alone makes it worth the money.

The critics should just name a game that comes even close to what CM:SF does.

Best regards,

Thomm

[MikeyD]

4. Can you improve the skills of individual units like tank gunners, drivers etc.

The player can't during gameplay but the scenario designer can adjust individual unit skills and morale in the editor (fanatical conscripts make great targets). CMSF is more 'combat sim' than 'computer game' so they've shied away from stuff resembling generic computergame 'health packs'. The closest they come is if you leave a unit with a wounded man stationary long enough to perform buddy aid the wounded guy's chance of not dying outright goes up somewhat. A minor 'health pack' indeed

[SlapHappy]

I have both games, but play TOW very little now. My biggest complaint was the lack of control you have over infantry formations and a lack of TACAI that leads to an unwanted level of micromanagement. Vehicular combat is quite nice, and damage modelling is as well.

Keep in mind that in TOW, you have the ability to control individual soldiers. In CMSF the squad can be split, but individual control is not offered. This is a good and bad thing from my perspective. It can make infantry control in TOW unwieldy when combined with the limited TACAI. If you prefer distinct unit control, however, then TOW will probably be more to your liking. You can also set formations for selected troops in TOW.

All in all, I think the CMSF version of infantry is more realistic and workable.

I found it just too hard to get infantry in TOW to do what I wanted them to do without massive micromanagement. I also dislike the limited number of simultaneous units that TOW allows in a battle. In CMSF, it is possible to fight a battalion per side and still play a reasonably cohesive scenario. In TOW, you can control about the same number of units and vehicles that you can in Close Combat.

Hopefully the infantry model is significantly improved in TOW2.

Can't wait to check out a demo!

[bassplayer192837]

I have recently bought ToW and am very happy with it, now i have the bug and am thinking of also getting CMSF.

I would like to ask a few questions:

1. Is CMSF gameplay similar to that of ToW;

2. Does CMSF have a points system for upgrading or buying new units before a mission;

3. Can you decide which units you want to take into a mission?

4. Can you improve the skills of individual units like tank gunners, drivers etc.

5. Reading through soem of the posts on this forum gives me the impression that some players have huge problems parts of CMSF - should these views be taken as completely negaitive of the game or these just constructive criticisms?

I'll admit i havent been playing this game for a long time but I seemed to have picked up on it fairly easily with a few exceptions.