Small arms vs Thermal Sights

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[zmoney]

No, they are protected from anything smaller than 100mm.

[Flanker15]

Really? That's pretty tough, the front hull of a M1A1 can barely stand a 100mm sabot at 1500m.

[flamingknives]

ISTR that during the Croatian separation from Yugoslavia, the Croats developed a 20mm sniper rifle as this was the smallest that would reliably take out tank vision devices.

Since thermal sights work on different wavelengths to visible light and the windows are made of different materials, fracture behaviour wouldn't necessarily affect them in the same fashion.

I was playing with a commercial thermal imager (don't know what wavelength that was operating on though) and window glass was opaque

[Combatintman]

zmoney - got a source for that. As Flanker15 says - that's pretty tough certainly given that many armoured vehicles as a whole are not designed to withstand impacts from rounds of half that calibre.

[Lee]

I don't see how that's possible. I would think even a 50mm round would severely mess up, if not utterly destroy, any kind of optical sight, especially if it was an AP round.

[Guest Guest]

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[Flanker15]

Perhaps he means 100mm of penertrating power not 100mm caliber?

[Flanker15]

I thought I'd add that I've lost my TIS to small arms in Steel Beasts ProPE several times and it's very realistic.

[zmoney]

I’m sorry guys. I thought everyone who read my comments would clearly see that I offer no insight to this question. And yes I meant caliber. I was only joking it was late at night and felt like being a tool, sorry for starting so much debate on my lame comments. I now banish myself to a boring Friday night.

[Moon]

Damage to external equipment is fully and realistically simulated in CMSF. However, there have been various improvements to the modelling which are going into the next patch, which you obviously don't see in the current v1.08. Having said that - from what I remember, most of the thermal sights have pretty good armor against small arms even up to medium calibers. But they should (and do) get damaged.

[Guest Guest]

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[John Kettler]

Here's the original item on the Croatian AMR (Antimateriel rifle). Note that while the doghouse will keep protect the optics against some frag level from airburst (believe the airburst spec is 152mm HE at 20 m HOB), it was never designed to endure direct attack from an AP firing HMG or rifle firing a similar cartridge. The article clearly shows that one doesn't have to shoot through the open armored doors, either.

http://yarchive.net/mil/anti_thermal_sight.html

The "lightly armored equipment" referred to in the copy for the 12.7mm OSV-96 sniper rifle here would include the doghouse, and I can virtually guarantee a shot hitting even the closed doors would jam them.

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=275&linkid=2284

Unless and until fire control optics/electro-optics begin to be made from the equivalent of Unobtainium, they will remain vulnerable. In WW II a German rifle company, using only organic small arms, poured so much fire into a trapped Sherman it became useless. All the vision blocks and periscopes were shattered, the antennas shot away,

the turret jammed, tracks, shot off, etc. And that was with 7.92mm fire!

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Distraction bites me yet again, compounded by the to me insane edit time limits. The passage should've read, "Note that while the doghouse will protect..." Apparently, I started the sentence with one idea, got distracted by a call, then missed the oops as I raced to finish the post and get over to a friend's house to make dinner.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Lee]

I knew that post had to be wrong, there's just no way sights can take anywhere near that much punishment. If anything, they are pretty fragile.

Very interesting about that German infantry unit shooting that sherman tank until it was a non-functional wreck with just 8mm Mauser rounds. It just goes to show that even though the main armor on a tank can be quite tough, there are plenty of other things that can be badly damaged or completely ruined with just small arms fire.

[SgtMuhammed]

1 round or even a couple hitting the sight won't put it out of action. If needed the gunner can quickly close the doghouse and start using the GAS sight which is burried farther inside the armor.

One thing to consider is that it is a really small target. While it may not be much trouble to hit on a range, if someone is shooting at you or has the potential to send a very large, high explosive round your way, the shot becomes a little harder. In most cases it is much more useful to try to cause casualties by shooting at soldiers rather than at a piece of equipment that can be easily replaced.

[Lampshade111]

I doubt anything lower than .50 caliber or 12.7mm AP would do the trick. But it may take a few hits.

"M1A1 can barely stand a 100mm sabot at 1500m."

I don't know where you heard that but I think your wrong there. What type of 100mm sabot ammo? Hell the M60A1 Patton could handle 100mm AP/APDS hits.