Storm of Steel

[Colin I]

Hmmm, I'm not enthused by the post WWII scenarios but love the increased strategic options by starting the war early in Storm of Steel.

I've only played a few turns, I suspect an early attack on France will be popular but we will see.

Anyone fancy a PBEM game before any of us figure out the standard tactics and responses to the decision events. Would like to see this replace Fall Weiss as the standard but maybe there will balancing issues.

[Bill101]

The new strategic options are immense and even though I was involved in playtesting this I have to say that I still haven't done much more than scratch the surface of all the potential strategies.

I agree that it would be good if this replaced Fall Weiss as the standard.

[The K Man]

It would be nice to have both options. (Fall Weiss and Storm of Steel.) I do like the options in PDE, and the choices each side can make to change history. But I would agree with Colin that an early attack on France will be the standard. And since Poland does not get involved when Germany declares war on France, I think there will be some balance issues. When France falls in Aug 1939, you can then turn on the weak UK island or Africa. Still playing around with it, but not sure the allies stand much of a chance with France out that early. I think Poland should come into the war or a % chance that it will (with an German attack on France or UK.) Also you can't set up/buy anything with Poland when neutral, so options there are limited. So what incentive do you have to attack Poland before France?

[Bill101]

Taking France out before Poland does mean that you've got to march or operate all your troops back to Poland before your failure to take Warsaw starts to increase Soviet war readiness. Something I hadn't realised and I'm now suffering for it as the USSR joined the war about 6 months before I was ready to invade them!

Another advantage the allies have is that the USA and to a lesser extent the USSR have a lot more time to carry out research before they become involved. In my allied game (I'm playing mirror) my Axis opponent is in for some nasty surprises, even though he's so far had quite a successful run.

[The K Man]

Good point Bill. Yes, you would need to take out Poland before Jan 1940. Don't want to give Russia unneccesary money. I guess the march/operating back is similar to the march/operate from Poland to France. One advantage to taking out Poland is you don't have to rush to go after France. But France is weaker earlier on. Going to take some practice to see which method is more beneficial.

Yes, the allies have more time for research, but then so does Germany. All up to the player.

[SeaMonkey]

Has anyone tried going through, not DOWing Poland, diplo/DoW Bulgaria, Romania into USSR first?

Will this leave the West out? Perhaps even leaving the Czech alone to keep WA readiness down?

I've done the Demo and it is easy to get France out early then taking all of Western Europe leaving the Soviets alone with Americans impending.

I would think that with all, excluding a small garrison in the West, the Axis strength focused on USSR, they would go down by 43 easily.

[Alaric]

my humble oppinion, as allways from first play of "storm of steel" is take first france, indeed, the plunder from france is twice or more that this from poland and with the new units you will crush poland, reverse way you give more turns to france and the income from plunder poland is not that great for the offensive on france,

best regards,

alarick.

[Colin I]

Maybe this is not all Axis way. Bill already commented on longer tech period for Allies. Some more thoughts:

I'm experimenting with hitting Italy (mostly in North Africa) harder earlier, you have a bit more time to plan for this now and can manipulate Italian war readyness if you need to.

Also, France does start with decent forces, only a bit worse than Fall Weiss. If Germany hits it before the Axis gets the second armour unit then one wonders if it is possible to give a careless Axis player a hard time. An Axis has to build that paratrooper now - its not available for 1939 action.

Can Allies hit Poland with diplomacy if Axis go west first? Given a couple of turns set up and some tech upgrades Poland could be a bit of a worry.

I'm still seeing multiple strategies.

Would be nice if Allies had some decision events early but maybe its best as it is - Axis must be allowed to keep strategic initiative in the early stages.

still looking for that PBEM to test this against a smarter opponent than the AI

[Alaric]

well, in fact, just about options, i want to say that an in fact historical option can be to expand the maginot line to the north up to the coast, at the expenses of some diplomacy (war readiness cost of inactive pro-allied), and for the germans same for the west-wall/siegfried line, both are historically "over the table" of the high command of both nations, a fortified extended maginot will give a hard punch to the germans, and added in can have impact over italy join axis someway later,

best regards,

alarick.

[Scook]

So far, in my playtesting, yes, Axis early on France seems to be the standard. IMO, dump every British troop into France at that point in time. You should outnumber the Germans, and slow down the Axis until bad things happen. As much as I like pumping up the destroyers asap, I find a few British corps early is very helpful. Hope that helps some.

[StefMan]

Has anyone tried to ignore the Ribbentrop - Molotov Pact and then to take the Baltic States? This provides a great inititial position to invade the USSR. In my game against the AI, Moscow fell at the end of 1940. Now, in summer of 1941, I fended of the siberian troops, took Charkov and I am currently advancing on Stalingrad. I pretty much ignored diplo, research and North Africa in order to purchase HQ's and troops. The goal of course is to take russia as quickly as possible out of the war. If they are out in 1942 the Western Allies should be a piece of cake.

[Colin I]

Yes, find this option very interesting and an excellent addition over Fall Weiss.

[SeaMonkey]

StefMan, what was the West's disposition while you were following this strategy?

[StefMan]

Right now it's spring 1942 and the U.S. have just joined a couple of turns ago after Germany had declared war (by event). The U.K. has taken the italian possessions in North Africa. Irak became british by an event. Iran went to the russkies by event. In the west all is quiet, except for some fighter attacks on cities in northern France. Things are looking good in the east. Stalingrad has been taken just recently and the southern oil fields are cut off from Sverdlovsk.

[ May 28, 2008, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: StefMan ]

[StefMan]

In early 1943 British and American Forces took North Africa. In Summer 1943 they sucessfully launched a well orchestrated invasion in Sicily and a British corps took Hamburg by surprise. Yet, just one turn earlier Sverdlovsk had fallen and the USSR had surrendered.

I think the aggressive Eastern Poland / Baltic States strategy is a viable option. Russia will not be ready for war in early 1940 and Leningrad, Kiev, Minsk, Smolensk and Moscow should fall quickly. The US will not join much earlier and the UK doesn't have enough ressources early on to become a serious threat.

Against a human opponent however this is quite risky. If Axis is delayed in France or Russia things can get ugly. Also Axis will most likely not invest alot in diplomacy and research and neglect other theaters (Scandinavia, North Africa). I think the decision events really enriched the game by adding another interesting strategy.