The screen

[whaco]

Having a bit of trouble with this one on Vet mode. I have advanced through Alpha, Bravo, Charlie phase lines. I then stood watch over OBJ Diane area. I have destroyed every soviet tank but now have run out of TOW and Jav's. There is some armoured cars now running around and I have no rounds left to kill these armoured cars. Even my inf have run out of rounds. Tough battle. Through all this I still get a Tactical US Defeat!!! Any suggestions?

[jomni]

use arty or air support if available.

let these guys do all the work at the start to conserve ammo.

[metalbrew]

The 12.7mm on the Strykers can kill BRDM-2s. The 40mm grenade launcher can also kill BRDM-2s. I also believe the infantry can acquire more AT4s from their Strykers as well as small arms ammo.

[whaco]

Well I figured it out. You have to conceal your strykers very well similiar to the way hull down works. I used the terrain very well in that map and picked some nice contours of the land. Thanks for the advice. Very fun map. This game is definitely no clickfest.

[whaco]

Double post, sorry.

[snake_eye]

1st time , I played it veteran RT, I got a total defeat being wiped out around the base of the village having no tow or javelins left and the apaches came too late, when the the caller was dead. The place was full of tanks, BTR and BMP despite the ones I had knocked out earlier.

That left me with a bad taste.

Playing it through a new campaign Elite RT, I just scored a Tactical Victory, without zero KIA, WIA and track losse.The syrians had 43 KIA, 0 WIA and 5 armored tracks destroyed. No tank, because there were none !!!!

Since the start, the tracks went fast to the village, then a Tow and the last one after it hit what turned out to be BMP's

My set up:

I had a track with a squad,with javelins,on a roof at the village, phase line Alpha.

A Tow track and two strykers went in the gully on the left side of phase line Bravo.

The squad with javelins as well as the HQ, dismounted and overwatching Obj Diane.

The HQ kept one Apache over objective Diane and another one, between them and the other team in Charlie gully.

A Tow track and a stryker went on the right, in the gully running parallel at phase line Charlie. There the squad with javelins' dismounted, facing Obj Diane, from its stryker that got immobilized in the sand.

Besides one or two missiles being fired at a BMP that has been discovered and destroyed by an Apache called by the HQ in the area between Charlie and Bravo gullies, the last 30 minutes were uneventful.

I have, however the feeling that, that BMP was already destroyed during the advance. Is it possible that the Apache shoot at it again ?

I just kept waiting for the tanks and they never came.

In the AAR I scored 1000 points for the Syrian Recon unit having been destroyed and 0 points for the tank unit being mentionned.

Is it the fact of the overwachts being provided by the Apaches that dissuaded them to come, or the position in the gullies ? Anyway I did not have tanks coming fast from all over the place as expected from my earlier biting.

I had left 18 Tows and 7 javelins in the three squads.

Why the tanks did not come ????

If that happened to you let me know ?

[Erwin.Rommel]

Move your troops to those hills to get a better view,maybe they just have no LOS?

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by Erwin.Rommel:

Move your troops to those hills to get a better view,maybe they just have no LOS?

well, there are no hills to look at from the places indicated, but behind (the way we came from). The LOS is good from Charlie and Bravo, but the tanks are not coming, only the recon force which is being wiped out. Scared of the Apaches, the tanks ?

[bwgulley]

Put your troops on the roofs of the buildings and give them a hide command. Of course give each team 3 javelins. Have the TOW vehicles kill the light armor. Once the tanks arrive un-hide one team at a time to kill the tanks. Un-hiding all teams at once means they could fire at the same target wasting missiles. If you don't the hide the infantry will fire off all their missiles then you're in trouble. Do this and you'll win everytime. Most I evey lose is one of the anti-tank vehiciles. It seems one tanks always gets through and kills my vehicle. I've played this scenario at least 10 times so the above works.

[Erwin.Rommel]

Originally posted by snake_eye:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Erwin.Rommel:

Move your troops to those hills to get a better view,maybe they just have no LOS?

well, there are no hills to look at from the places indicated, but behind (the way we came from). The LOS is good from Charlie and Bravo, but the tanks are not coming, only the recon force which is being wiped out. Scared of the Apaches, the tanks ? </font>

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by bwgulley:

Most I evey lose is one of the anti-tank vehiciles.

The squad's roof hiding with javelins is correct and sound to use, but I remind you that in my case I did not sustained any casualty for the men as well as the tracks.

I did however destroyed the Syrians Recon forces BMP and squads while taking position at Alpha (on the roof) and the gully of Bravo and Charlie and won a Tactical Victory, with the number of TOW and Javelins left as written previously.

The Syrians tanks did not attack at all.

The question was : Why ? .

they did it in a preceeding play and I ended with all men wiped out and the tracks destroyed and that brought me a Total Defeat.

Since I had the Apaches overflying Obj Diane exit and the area between Charlie an Bravo squad's position, I wondered if that was the reason why the tanks did not appear ?

[Erwin.Rommel]

Maybe it's just a small bug.

When I played this mission,I used the TOWs to destroy those BMPs first,then deployed my troops on the roofs and small hills,when the T-62s appeared,I called the Apaches,and fired the Jevelins(one team at a time).when all enemy tanks were destroyed,the syrian BTRs appeared.Destroyed them with the TOW vehicles.then syrian surrendered.

Everything are normal.

[ September 28, 2007, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: Erwin.Rommel ]

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by Erwin.Rommel:

Maybe it's just a small bug.

That could be a bug. I shall try it again with the troops staying at Alpha phase line in the village and see if the tanks are coming in.

Let you know of the issue.

[George MC]

Hi Guys

Just seen your comments. I'm curious do the BMPs follow the same route in each game. If I mind there are multiple AI plans for this scenario with one plan being the most common, but ther is another plan. Could be the bug is associated with the other AI plan hence it does not always show.

FWIW this was checked out and as far as I am aware both AI plans worked. That's not to say they do now. Just curious.

Cheers fur noo

George

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by George Mc:

Hi Guys

Just seen your comments. I'm curious do the BMPs follow the same route in each game.

Well, I started it again at the time the right forward Charlie position was set, the Alpha position on the roof at the village also ready and the Bravo position just in the phase of being dug in the gully.

The tanks came right from the place being left vacant between Bravo and Charlie phase line. They went through the waddi heading for the village. I got 7 tanks and soon lost the right Tow and stuck stryker, then the left Tow and a stryker.

No way to have the Apaches on the way rapidly. It took 7 minutes and when they came the tanks were already in the village.

The squad there, got hidden on the roof and was able to call the Apaches when the BTR after their seizure of the village went to the opposite houses. 2 of them got chewed up after waiting 7 long minutes to have the air asset do its job.

Meanwhile, I managed to pull forward (following the waddi)the only stryker remaining on the Bravo gully with a depleted squad to the Charlie position , where was only left a depleted MG team. They got into the stryker and stayed there, the T.L.R being reach.

The BTR came from Obj Diane on the left.

I think that there are different AI attack depending on the placing of the forces and their air asset. That time I did not have it set, that maybe the reason of a Total Defeat the T.L.R being reach

15 KIA 7 WIA 5 tracks destroyed against 69 KIA 2 WIA 7 tanks ansd 7 tracks for the Syrians

[snake_eye]

Should read a major defeat. Doesn't make too much of a difference, anyway.

I am trying it from the beginning, this time, to ascertain the differents AI attack behaviour of the syrians.

[George MC]

The AI strategic behaviour (i.e. how it attacks, direction, style etc), for now, is not conditional i.e. if there are Apaches overhead etc, rather the AI plans are designed by the designer.

So whether units come on or not is a design issue rather than a reflection of the en-map situation. Also the Ai will attack depending on the selected desgner produced plan - the likliehood of the AI choosing a plan(if there are multiple plans)is again based on designer selected parameters. Hope this makes sense?

Cheers fur noo

George

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by George Mc:

The AI strategic behaviour (i.e. how it attacks, direction, style etc), for now, is not conditional i.e.George

Well,the AI being not conditional it does however react from an algorithm set by the designer. If I have it right,what you are saying, is that the AI does not react from the ground situation, but from a predetermined planified move set by the designer. If that is the way, it should always come from the same direction and with the same unfold despite what it has on its way , no ?

That is not what happens in the screen.

I am going to try it again from the start and when I get time I shall look to it through the editor, if it is not restricted.

Cheer

[bwgulley]

After I kill the first rush up BTR's I run 1 vehicle down the right flank to trip all the phase lines. It seems the tanks activate a few minutes after the phase lines are tripped.

First time I played this scenario I advanced my troops down the map towards the phase lines after killing their advance screen. Then the tanks appeared and killed most of my guys and raced to the far side of the map. Needless to say total defeat of my boys!! But using the roof tops and hide it been total victory ever since.

[George MC]

Hi Snake Eye

You are right - if there is only one AI plan.

However, I am sure I made two AI plans for this scenario so depending on what chance I set for it using one or other you could get a differant attack. FWIW the tanks should arrive in both AI plans. Let me know how you get on

Cheers fur noo

George

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by George Mc:

Hi Snake Eye

You are right - if there is only one AI plan.

Well George, that time I scored a TOTAL VICTORY still playing it Elite RT.

7 kia, 2 wia, a Tow, and a Stryker destroyed.

The Syrians got 108 kia, 1 wia, 10 tanks T-62, 5 BMP's and 3 BTR's destroyed.

The setting the same as earlier, but with a slight change at Bravo's gully.

The Tow still forward, toward obj Diane, a stryker on the opposite at the junction of the gully and the northern gully with an MG squad with 3 javelins.

the other stryker is hidden in the waddi on the left ot the road's small bridge. Its HQ fitted with 3 javelin's.

On the way to the battle emplacements defined, Charlie's team has we might call it, got 3 BMP's with its TOW. Bravo's team Tow got one at the waddi-gully junction and another one near the bridge left side where it race trying to escape.

From then on, the battle was rather quick. The tanks came and where first shot at by Charlie's team, who lost the Tow in the process. The squad fired all of its javelins.

Bravo's MG team fired for sure 1 javelin and lost its TUC being therefore unable to fire from then on.

I had to call back the Tow staying on the left and not being engaged.

Meanwhile I called the Apaches and drew a fire area at the origin of the waddi.

As soon as I have done it, it seems to me that the T-62's were rather cautious, for a time being. Then they came trough the waddi, destroyed the stryker and I thought that it was the end of Bravo's. 6 tanks had been destroyed at that time and Charlie's could not help anymore. Alpha's was in reserve, still hiiden on the roof at the village.yet they probably fired earlier, one or two javelins at the tanks in the waddi

The Tow made the difference and got 4 T-62, with maybe one that could be accounted to the Apaches.

At that time the BTR came on the left side coming from Obj Diane.

Alpha's shot one (with its last javelin), the Tow one with its last missile and the last BTR's reached the village and was shot with an AT-4(the only one left !) at close quarter by the squad on the roof.

Well it is a rather pleasant scenario full of surprise, since the tanks are not coming exactly when we expect them to come, even if it is somehow from what I have seen, from the same area

Cheer

[George MC]

Hi Snake_Eye

Cheers for that - good effort

As long as the tanks appear. I suspect there could be a glitch in one of the AI plans which is why the tanks don't appear but we'll only know if someone else says the same. Still looks like it worked for you this time around.

Cheers fur noo

george

[snake_eye]

Originally posted by George Mc:

Hi Snake_Eye

Cheers for that - good effort

Hi George, thank for reviewing my AAR. I just got a glance yesterday to your CMSF scenario builder and CMBB site.

I think that I shall build a mission, with squads fighting dismounted in a small village clear up. Some kind of a MOUT. Might be handy for training.

Will let you know at the time and shall be glad to have your comments.

Cheer