North Africa ? 88mm

[user73]

Are there any scenarios, which are set in the north african ? I mean Deutsches Afrika Korps against the british desert rats ? Or is this maybe planed for a later update/expansion?

Is the german 88mm gun in the game, as antitank weapon ?

[Markus86]

No desert atm. 88mm as Pak43 yes but not the FLAK version.

[user73]

hmm, one of the most famous weapons is missing hopefully it will come later in addon or expansion and no african theatre is also sad but you can´t allways get what you want ...

[Kettenhund]

I think the "Scheunentor" has power enough...

This masterpice of german anti tank weapon make nice holes in T34 and Stalin tanks...

I love pak43...

[Markus86]

tell this the charb1s during the campaign in France

[Flanker15]

Yeah no FLAK 88 what's the world coming too? You can go find my other no FLAK 88 rants in forum somewhere, if you want to.

[pwncake]

thats not so good.

how do we suppose to destroy tanks in the early forty's because the pak43 wasnt available then.

can we buy them instead of the flak's

or are we screwed when we encounter an t34 and we have no way of destroying it?

[Kettenhund]

Originally posted by pwncake:

thats not so good.

how do we suppose to destroy tanks in the early forty's because the pak43 wasnt available then.

can we buy them instead of the flak's

or are we screwed when we encounter an t34 and we have no way of destroying it?

Use this one: 75mm PaK 40 L / 48 (release date november 1941)

or at close range:

Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf. J with 50mm Kw.K. 39 L / 60 with high velocity PzGr.40 Armor Piercing Composite Rigid

[Markus86]

i just say mission 2 / german campaign.

[pwncake]

Kettenhund,

you know the story from Erwin Rommel in France about the tanks he had to destroy and could only do it with 88's otherwise he had lost.

How am i to do that with an pak40 with was invented more then a year later???????

not to mension the pak43 which was intreduced even later??

Maybe that scenario isn't in?

Or where there panzer3 ausfurung J already in may 1940????

Just thought that the 50mm was used from 41 and not 40

Still hope they fix this in there next update.

Otherwise you get in MP always people who buy tanks which cannot be destroyed (maybe lucky shot)

[user73]

And the british have the Matilda II Tank

[Speedy]

Looks like the Brits are going to win at Arras

[pwncake]

tnx speedy forgot the name of the town

and yep i play the brits that battle.

[Elementalism]

Oops hehe, were 88s used extensively in 1940? Or was it one of those weapons that when used was decimating, but only saw action in limited scenarios and its use was overstated due to its godlyness?

I honestly dont know.

I will say in CM, the 88 flak was a prefered gun of choice. It was cheaper than the Pak43, seemed like it had a faster traverse, and knocked out most anything except the very high end armor at 1000+ yards.

[user73]

To display the role of the 88 as an anti tank gun:

Erwin Rommel helped develop the 88 as an anti-tank weapon, first in France and later in North Africa. His timely use of the gun to blunt the British advance at Arras ended any hope of a breakout from the blitzkrieg encirclement of May 1940. In Libya and Egypt, he lured British tanks into traps by baiting them with apparently retreating panzers. When the British pursued, concealed 88s picked them off at ranges far beyond those of the two and six-pound turret guns of the British marks. The unparalleled penetration of the 88's shells destroyed many Allied tanks and other armoured vehicles. The British 8th Army eventually learned to coordinate their heavy artillery with their ground advances, destroying the relatively immobile 88s in their emplacements once they revealed their positions.

The weapon saw continuous use on the Russian Front. It played a crucial role in the early months of Operation Barbarossa. The appearance of the outstanding T-34 shocked the Wehrmacht Panzer Truppen, whose 37 mm and 50 mm tank guns could only penetrate the Russian tank's steel armour at extremely close range. Until the Panzer IVF2 and the Tiger reached the front, the 88 was the only weapon that possessed the punch to stop the Russian T-34 and KV tanks.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/88_mm_gun

So please bring in this gun, or how should the germans kill the opposing tanks in the early years ?

[Panzer_M 2.0]

what about 10.5cm LeFH, they were used as AT weapons when needed.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Uhm, 88s were punching holes in tanks as early as Spain. Rommels role in 88mm AA in ATG role is vastly overstated. In fact, though I'm a big fan of Wikipedia, the quote you provided is bollocks pretty much start to finish.

But yeah, I'd rather see the Flak version then the PAK. Ohwell.

[Dryfear]

88's were attached to specific army units, and the Luftwaffe was working with the army the entire war to not only engage enemy tanks, but bunkers as well.

The HG Division was employed in this manner in 1940, as up to that point they were still mainly a FLAK unit.

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Kettenhund:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by pwncake:

thats not so good.

how do we suppose to destroy tanks in the early forty's because the pak43 wasnt available then.

can we buy them instead of the flak's

or are we screwed when we encounter an t34 and we have no way of destroying it?

Use this one: 75mm PaK 40 L / 48 (release date november 1941)</font>

[Flanker15]

I realy don't know why it wan't included? ToW has bunkers which are bought, placed and imobile. Why then can't a Flak 88 be bought for a defending army to be placed in a permanent position in the setup phase?

[SpetnazHobo007]

what a loss...the most effective and realtively main anti-tank weapon of the German army not included..ahh well haha, guess i'll have 2 make the pak as my new friend

[gunnersman]

The Tiger is as about as close as your going to get to seeing the Flak 36 at this point in time.

Look on the bright side...you can pre-order!

[Fetid]

Originally posted by Dryfear:

88's were attached to specific army units, and the Luftwaffe was working with the army the entire war to not only engage enemy tanks, but bunkers as well.

The HG Division was employed in this manner in 1940, as up to that point they were still mainly a FLAK unit.

Yeah. All Pnzr. Recon. Battalions had 2 and sometimes 4 towed 88s. This was standard. ANti-tank units didn't always contain them but they were usually included in the "heavy weapons" company of certain formations. And of course Luftwaffe units doing AA duty could be assigned anti-tank duty. The Poles were the first to use their Bofors 40Lmm AA gun and also their 76L AA gun against tanks when defending. Of course they didn't NEED to use the 76L AA gun as all German armour could be knocked out by a 37L ATG at that time. So it was more just whatever they had available rather than a tactic. They also used their artillery in direct fire against tanks. Later, the Finns did the same thing and of course it is still rumoured that they had German equipment on hand such as the PzJg 1 and the 88 Flak as a secret "loan" to them from Germany even though the Germans' public stance was nuetrality. The Germans adopted AA guns vs. large tanks as a tactic in France against the CHarB, Matilda, and the S-35. Stukas were also used and close assault when that wasn't available as the FRench never had a lot of heavy tanks on the field at any one time. When all else failed, they just avoided the monster and waited for the crew to surrender when they ran out of fuel, ammo, or had to pee or eat. The Italians also used their 75LAA gun (and later the 90L AA gun) as anti-tank guns as a tactic as well. It is documented that in December 1940, some Matildas were lost due to Italian 75Lmm AA guns being used defensively as anti-tank guns. The Italians were usually the defender and often had fortress like positions. The AA guns would be knocked out by mortars, artillery, and close assault by the British.

But yes, the flak 88 MUST be added to the game as a first update or even before release as it was a vital and standard piece of equipment. That's not to say that there were not at least some battles where it was not available and the Germans had to advance with weak equipment or they were surprised by French heavy tanks and did not have an 88 because that did happen as well. But even the recon Battalions (Abtelungs) had flak 88s up in the forefront of an advance.

[user73]

Urghs, just seen, the Jagdpanzer Elefant is in the game and there were only build around 90 units of this vehicle, hope the 88 will be put into later in an update or expansion .... äh, if, can i perorder the expansion now ??