RMC Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Your suggestion to outsource the TOW forum - I don't know, has advantages I guess. It is already happening. This is new ground for BFC. Prior to now their games have been niche products and these forums adequate for those games. With ToW comes the potential for their first, real mass-market product. That brings things like fansites and their forums into the mix. This may also be the first time that a BFC product has a separate forum on the developer site too. So now we have the potential for a mass influx of new people who do not have much in common with the current forum userbase. We may become a minority on "our" forums here. When the w00t monkeys arrive in force the mix will prove explosive as it already has here and BFC doesn't have the resources to dedicate to controlling it. Maybe the best course would be to drop this ToW forum and redirect traffic to some other place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by RMC: So now we have the potential for a mass influx of new people who do not have much in common with the current forum userbase.You might be right - I'm thinking of the Strategic Command people x10. [shudder] Then again, it is not ruled out that many of the people interested in ToW would also find interest in CM:SF and fit well into those forums, nor vise versa. Anyway, Sabots were banned and this topic deserves to be dropped. This is the ToW game forum, not the "let's discuss the different cultures between CM players and RTS players" forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltung Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Prince of Eckmühl: If I were interested in TOW and came here looking for information about it, I'd be so turned-off as to consider simply waiting for it to (perhaps) show up at the local BEST BUY, rather than risk a purchase online of something so apparently controversial. This can't be what BF and 1C intend, is it? PoE I think I fall into this catagory. been a serious student of WWII for probably approaching 30 years. my personal collection of WWII books numbers in the 100s, with many primary being source materials. Started wargaming with the Avalon Hill games in the 1970s (board games), miniatures, and progressed to today's computer games. I don't see much justification in attacking people here because they are "new" and are here recently to check on the status of ToW. :eek: FWIW, I own both CMBB and CMAK, and have enjoyed many hours playing them both. IMO, the forum moderators should be even more aggressive in dealing with the people who are nasty just for the sake of being nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hitori Kyo , admin u just banned someone on speculation what the hell ? No, I banned someone who openly admitted that he isn't supposed to be here because he was banned before. I did some research (I have access to a lot of hidden information that Forum member's can't see) and I have confirmed who his real identity is. I also have emails from this individual, know his real name, and home address. He is a neo-Nazi from Australia who has the distinction of making the single worst, offensive, racist post in the 9 year history of this Fourm. And that is an accomplishment I do not wish to see topped by him or anybody else. We went so far as to fill out paperwork to file a criminal complaint with the Australian government (what this individual did was not only repugnant, but illegal under Australian law). And yet we are being criticized for banning this guy again? Perhaps the critics don't know what they are talking about? ur going to lose many customers this way.. ur game would want to be goodI doubt that. Every time we sort out the trouble makers we get threats like this from people who don't understand how civil societies, even virtual ones, work. We have rules, fair and simple rules. If someone is too stupid or mentally damaged to follow them, we do not want them here. The majority of Forum members appreciate this too, so every year our customer base grows and the number of idiots trying to ruin this Forum for others shrinks. And that is the way it should be. Sergei, If someone admits having been banned and coming back, there's no need to speculate.Correct. You are also thinking of the right person, but you have the Forum name wrong. Think of another 1st SS personality. That's part of the pattern. Shmavis, I just did some archive searching, and I think I know the name. Eek!This is why we never delete posts, even the worst ones like the one you apparently found. We want there to be a clear record so Forum members themselves can see that we are fair and just with our enforcement of the rules. Shabe, Too bad the moderators encourage that kind of people, while baning anyone who dare to critic any of their games.Nobody has been banned for being critical of our games. I challenge you to show me where I am wrong on this. What you see are people being banned for being abusive and violating our rules. The rules are agreed to by anybody joining this Forum and are SO SIMPLE TO OBEY it always saddens me that some people feel the need to defend such idiots. Note that the rules actively encourage people to be critical of our work, not the opposite. So it is impossible for me to ban someone for breaking the rules if all they have done is criticized a game or even my behavior as moderator. Afterall, if I were 1/2 as bad as you think I am I would have banned Sgt. Popov, Hitori Kyo, and even you. Yet here you are, criticizing me on my own Forum of my own company. How can you reconcile your criticism with this reality? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 We anticipated the culture clash. As someone pointed out, we already had that with the Strategic Command crowd. As far as we are concerned, diversity is good for everybody. New people coming into the mix can't be anything but a positive thing for wargaming and Battlefront, which by extension benefits you customers. All we ask is that people follow the rules of this Forum. There is nothing in the rules that states someone must be a "serious wargamer" to post. That's ridiculous. What will happen with the ToW Forum crowd is the same thing that happened with Strategic Command. They will form their own community within the game specific Forum and be happy. The core of one will likely not post in the Forum of another. People that do post in multiple Forums should understand and respect the differences of each and post accordingly. Forum number or amount of posts are irrelevant when it comes to being polite and respectful of others. The person that signed up yesterday and the one who has been here since before we switched to UBB software (1998?) should be treated no differently by the other. This is the same behavior that well behaved travelers of the real world understand. When I went to Slovenija I knew that the front of the bus was reserved for the elderly, even though it was not written down anywhere. So I sat in the back of the bus out of respect for their culture. I did not demand that they start adopting "first come, first seated" philosophy. That would be arrogant and counter productive. So you CM guys need to keep this in mind just as the ToW guys should. Post, be considerate of others, have fun, and follow the rules. That's all we ask. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerjäger653 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ä Alt+0228 will help you spell your sig line correctly, incidentally... thänks älot män ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeP Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Lets see...I've not been active for a few weeks and what do I see when I get back: -Theatre of War might have gone "gold", yay! -People are asking question that were answered a long, long while ago. That's usual. -People are flaming eachother, calling eachother names and insulting eachother. The joys of online forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Popov Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 lol I just got off the horn with Sabot and he offered to host the TOW forum for free if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Sgt Popov: lol I just got off the horn with Sabot and he offered to host the TOW forum for free if you are interested. Why? Is he that desperate for attention because his own forum has been a wasteland of interest and not exactly bringing in like minded people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PseudoSimonds Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Perhaps he wants to share more of his witty and mature comments: ****Who am I talking about? Its Battlefront.cum. of course. You know..Battlefart.com...Battlefrontin'.yo.com Home of the Zombat Mission series of turnbased disasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy_Davis_Jnr Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hmmmmmmmm maybe a good idea Maybe those who want to go off and start there own forum is not so bad. Ok we might lose a couple of worthwhile people but hey at least it would take the boring and stale argument of CM vs CC vs TOW and the i dont like this and i dont like that attitude that is rife among this board. Some people here think its there forum lol...know thats ridiculous. Quote RMC We may become a minority on "our" forums here. When the w00t monkeys arrive in force the mix will prove explosive as it already has here and BFC doesn't have the resources to dedicate to controlling it. Maybe the best course would be to drop this ToW forum and redirect traffic to some other place. Mate why are you so divisive? Its not your forum or mine ... its realistically TOW who expect us all to get over our narrow mindness. To all who are unhappy with the way TOW is going and all you want to do is piss on it that its not like CM then maybe you should leave. WE have a game here in the process that has the potential to be the best War game (pc) ever brought out. ----------------------------- We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools. Martin Luther King, Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Sammy_Davis_Jnr: WE have a game here in the process that has the potential to be the best War game (pc) ever brought out. No game has that potential simply by definition; to suggest otherwise is utopian dementia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy_Davis_Jnr Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 To Michael It wasnt meant to be that literal like saying geez that was the best day i ever had or this could be the best ice-cream i ever had. It was said with zest Michael. I understand your point and i apologise if i did not communicate that properly. -------------------------- I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain. - Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Sgt Popov, lol I just got off the horn with Sabot and he offered to host the TOW forum for free if you are interested.Well... no wonder why you took such offense to Sabot getting the boot (again). Being a friend of his offline doesn't really put you in a position of seeing things clearly now does it? Wicky , Why? Is he that desperate for attention because his own forum has been a wasteland of interest and not exactly bringing in like minded people...One constant on this Forum... the ones who cry the loudest about how terrible this place is are also the ones that try the hardest to come back after being banned. Doesn't give them much credibility now does it? PseudoSimonds Perhaps he wants to share more of his witty and mature comments:Hehe... I missed that quote. Like I said, Sabot is mentally whacked. The battle between CM and CC was waged 6 years ago. Who won? Well, if the winner is to be judged by which one is still alive and kicking and (likely) sold more units world wide... I'd say CM is the winner. But apparently he has some info we don't because he seems to think the opposite. Sammy_Davis_Jnr, Ok we might lose a couple of worthwhile people but hey at least it would take the boring and stale argument of CM vs CC vs TOW and the i dont like this and i dont like that attitude that is rife among this board. Yup, the CC vs. CM argument boring and it is stale. Which is why I'm happy to see Sabot gone (again) since there is no argument anymore. War's long over As for CM vs. ToW, this is an unfortunate argument that should never have started. The two games are different and should not be compared against each other. They are both good games, but not necessarily for the same reasons. To all who are unhappy with the way TOW is going and all you want to do is piss on it that its not like CM then maybe you should leave.I couldn't agree more. WE have a game here in the process that has the potential to be the best War game (pc) ever brought out.Well, we for one are not making such a claim. We don't like to build up hype like this before a game is released. Of course we think it is a great game and definitely better than most, but best? Well, we won't say that about any of our products until after customers and reviewers have had their say. Steve [ October 10, 2006, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Popov Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Well since we all know SPWAW owns all there is really no need to say which wargame is best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I'm going to ask that nobody take the bait. The whole "my male organ is bigger than your male organ" argument is rather pointless. The debate between SPWAW and CM was settled shortly after the CMBO Beta Demo was released Now, Popov... I suggest you take the axe off the grinder and start focusing your attention on discussing ToW. If that's what you are really here for that should be easy for you to do. If it is not what you're here for, then perhaps you should go to Sabot's forum instead? Setve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RMC: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigrun: ...but after some of the comments in another thread in the CMBB forum I've revised that assumption. Link please. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Only we can know how funny it is when Kettler comes along and Sigrun pisses his pants thinking he's found an ally, cutting loose with "Finally, somebody objective who makes some sense." LOL! And he even called Andreas an insecure Russian... </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Hitori Kyo , </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />admin u just banned someone on speculation what the hell ? No, I banned someone who openly admitted that he isn't supposed to be here because he was banned before. I did some research (I have access to a lot of hidden information that Forum member's can't see) and I have confirmed who his real identity is. I also have emails from this individual, know his real name, and home address. He is a neo-Nazi from Australia who has the distinction of making the single worst, offensive, racist post in the 9 year history of this Fourm. And that is an accomplishment I do not wish to see topped by him or anybody else. We went so far as to fill out paperwork to file a criminal complaint with the Australian government (what this individual did was not only repugnant, but illegal under Australian law). And yet we are being criticized for banning this guy again? Perhaps the critics don't know what they are talking about? ur going to lose many customers this way.. ur game would want to be goodI doubt that. Every time we sort out the trouble makers we get threats like this from people who don't understand how civil societies, even virtual ones, work. We have rules, fair and simple rules. If someone is too stupid or mentally damaged to follow them, we do not want them here. The majority of Forum members appreciate this too, so every year our customer base grows and the number of idiots trying to ruin this Forum for others shrinks. And that is the way it should be. Sergei, If someone admits having been banned and coming back, there's no need to speculate.Correct. You are also thinking of the right person, but you have the Forum name wrong. Think of another 1st SS personality. That's part of the pattern. Shmavis, I just did some archive searching, and I think I know the name. Eek!This is why we never delete posts, even the worst ones like the one you apparently found. We want there to be a clear record so Forum members themselves can see that we are fair and just with our enforcement of the rules. Shabe, Too bad the moderators encourage that kind of people, while baning anyone who dare to critic any of their games.Nobody has been banned for being critical of our games. I challenge you to show me where I am wrong on this. What you see are people being banned for being abusive and violating our rules. The rules are agreed to by anybody joining this Forum and are SO SIMPLE TO OBEY it always saddens me that some people feel the need to defend such idiots. Note that the rules actively encourage people to be critical of our work, not the opposite. So it is impossible for me to ban someone for breaking the rules if all they have done is criticized a game or even my behavior as moderator. Afterall, if I were 1/2 as bad as you think I am I would have banned Sgt. Popov, Hitori Kyo, and even you. Yet here you are, criticizing me on my own Forum of my own company. How can you reconcile your criticism with this reality? Steve </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Sigrun: Having the opinion (and calling it fact) that the general German soldier was a civilised, cultured and honourable man, So the holocaust was the work of just a few bad apples? whilst most soviet soldiers were illiterate child rapists, does not make me a nazi. No, but it makes you wrong. Illiterate maybe, but child rapists? C'mon. Nor does believing, as a fact, that the Waffen-SS were the best soldiers the world has ever seen, regardless of their political (and irrelevant) ideology, such as it was re the typical and average soldier.What are your criteria for an assesment that they were the best? And who are we talking about anyway? Some? All? Which ones? Skanderbeg? Handschar? Lützow? Charlemagne? Kama? Maria Theresa? Were they all the best too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy_Davis_Jnr Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I must state both Allied and Axis were guilty of war crimes we can all agree with that. Rmc made a good point Originally posted by RMC: So the holocaust was the work of just a few bad apples? But i did find this ... German sources listed below estimate that at the end of World War II, Red Army soldiers raped more than 2,000,000 German women, an estimated 200,000 of whom later died from injuries sustained, committed suicide, or were murdered outright. After June 1945 the Soviet high command imposed punishments for rape ranging from arrest to execution. In 1947 Soviet troops were completely separated from the residential population of Berlin. Estimations of rape victims are distributed as follows: Eastern Provinces: 1,400,000; zone of Soviet occupation excluding Berlin: 500,000; Berlin: 100,000. [1][2][3][4][5][6] The 2,000,000 rape victims estimate is also supported by the research of historian Norman Naimark.[3] In addition, many of these victims were raped repeatedly, some as many as 60 to 70 times. [4] During the occupation of Budapest (Hungary) it is estimated that 50,000 women were raped.[5][6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_atrocities If i got this wrong plz inform me. Stalin and Hitler were very much the same Tyrannt,just different idealogical differences. In conclusion discussing war crimes and atrocities maybe a little inappropriate. It could inflame people and bring out there bad side. ------------------------------------- In this world, which is so plainly the antechamber of another, there are no happy men. The true division of humanity is between those who live in light and those who live in darkness. Our aim must be to diminish the number of the latter and increase the number of the former. That is why we demand education and knowledge. Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 If the Waffen SS were the "best" soldiers the world has ever seen, why did they lose? The Allies had a much superior artillery force - the Parnham system was second to none in calling down fire accurately and in quantity, quickly. Waffen SS never developed anything like it. The US rifle squad put down disciplined and heavy semi-automatic fire as per their training - the SS relied on bolt-action rifles, the substandard MP40 machine pistol which veterans threw away in favour of PPSh where possible, and a general purpose machine gun that ate up ammunition in astonishing quantities. Later issues of semi-automatics and assault rifles didn't make up for the fact that basic training was by late 1944 more than halved from 16 to 7 weeks. The SS were also known to take heavy casualties due to their indoctrination in aggressiveness, which was wasteful in lives and counter-productive. Read the AAR of Panzergrenadierbattaillon 25 at Buron in July 1944 and tell me the teenage pukes hiding in the anti-tank ditch and holding out until subdued at point blank range with 75mm tank fire were "the best soldiers in the world". The HLI and Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment threw them out of the village (at great cost, to be sure) and fought off a counterattack by an entire Panther company. The tactics of the SS that day were basically to hide in their holes until overrun. In fact, a lot of the SS "tactics" seem to have been tied to overreliance on material superiority based on superior tanks. You can read about Peiper and his men in the Ardennes as well taking out frustrations by running other units off the roads, not to mention the occasional massacre of prisoners and civilians. I am not saying they were inferior to Allied troops, but the best soldiers in the Canadian, British, American and Russian armies were more than a match for them. I think Buron is a great demonstration of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy_Davis_Jnr Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Ahhh excuse me Michael you forgot The Australians ------------------------------- If you go out for a big night and by some misadventure you end up in a prison cell, you can count on your best friend to bail you out, but your best mate will be in there besides you. Australian observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 It's customary to momentarily forget Aussieland when they lose the Ashes Originally posted by Sammy_Davis_Jnr: Ahhh excuse me Michael you forgot The Australians ------------------------------- If you go out for a big night and by some misadventure you end up in a prison cell, you can count on your best friend to bail you out, but your best mate will be in there besides you. Australian observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy_Davis_Jnr Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by Wicky: [QB] It's customary to momentarily forget Aussieland when they lose the Ashes OHHHHH thats hitting below the belt guv --------------------------------- Rod Marsh & Ian Botham: >1. When Botham took guard in an Ashes match, Marsh welcomed him to the >wicket with the immortal words: "So how's your wife & my kids?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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