Col Deadmarsh Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Why in the name of all that is holy was this left out? How can so much attention to detail be put into each unit and yet something like smoke which adds a whole new dimension to the game be left out? How??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Not that I disagree with what I suspect your basic point is (Smoke should have been in the game - some loss in "unit detail" would have been worth it) but I'm reminded of a Dilbert comic. As I remember it, young Asok-the-intern opens up a meeting with a whiny question ("Why can't anyone around here make a decision?!"), and is congratulated with having "grown up." "How?" Gee, I wonder why they call them "grogs"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 No smoke! Can't have everything i guess, but i'd rather take the graphics hit than to have this left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFawlty Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Originally posted by Manx: No smoke! Can't have everything i guess, but i'd rather take the graphics hit than to have this left out. Ditto. BF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 What if that means there will be a delay in game release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus86 Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Posted by Moon: According to our own research (and why there are no smoke grenades in CM for example), smoke grenades have been mainly used for signal purposes and not really to mask movement. Smoke shells from artillery are an omission, but not as much as one would think. The maps and mission design work well without it. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Hmmm, so i guess no use of smoke dischargers or smoke mortars on vehicles, what a shame. [ August 26, 2006, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: JoMc67 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stone75 Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Just a small point, What about smoke pots on tanks etc, did they not pop smoke and reverse when they did not like what was shooting at them. Is smoke considered for a future addon ? Quote "What if that means there will be a delay in game release?" Id take the game as soon as i can and hope features like an editor, enterable buildings and of course smoke come later. BTW any eta on the demo yet ? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Originally posted by stone75: BTW any eta on the demo yet ? Steve In the "...are we there yet?" thread. Originally posted by Moon: Yes, we're falling a little behind schedule on the demo due to the amount of changes and testing. Early September? Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted August 27, 2006 Author Share Posted August 27, 2006 Originally posted by Markus86: Posted by Moon: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />According to our own research (and why there are no smoke grenades in CM for example), smoke grenades have been mainly used for signal purposes and not really to mask movement. Smoke shells from artillery are an omission, but not as much as one would think. The maps and mission design work well without it. Martin </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 The mission design includes the mission brief that says: "Smoke candles for the tank dischargers are zero balance across the theater. Make do without, commander." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Originally posted by RMC: The mission design includes the mission brief that says: "Smoke candles for the tank dischargers are zero balance across the theater. Make do without, commander." or... "Nebelkerzen sind AUS. Ham wir nich, führ'n wir nich, kriegen wir nich." or... отсутствие имеющегося дыма or somefink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgTzu Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 RMC and Hofbauer, you guys make this forum so much more lively.. I look forward to reading your posts almost as much as anticipating any demo.. But seriously, no smoke...at least from mortars or arty, yet we have strategic and tactical air assets at our beck and call. Even the most die-hard fan should cry foul so that some of these imbalances are eventually worked out. Is TOW going to be a tactical simulation or a representation of somefink else? :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PseudoSimonds Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Originally posted by MorgTzu: Is TOW going to be a tactical simulation or a representation of somefink else? :-> I have it from reliable sources that it's going to be a bumper car simulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgTzu Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 "I have it from reliable sources that it's going to be a bumper car simulator." Mit cowbells and free vodka during the Il2 minigame. The only thing lacking is in-game signs on the battlefield: "Smoke has been deemed hazardous to your health by OSHA and the International Building Code Authority, especially in second or third hand situations" And on the houses: "The greater TOW Homeowner's Association has deemed combat troops in interior spaces unsightly" At the (invisible) battlefield edge: "Due to a permanent strike over poor forum recognition, the united mortarmen union (pronounced uooo-mooo) have declared a walk-out and will not be available anywhere in the battle area" [ August 31, 2006, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: MorgTzu ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgTzu Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 But on a more silly note... Can Moon or Megakill give the word that Arty smoke is at least one of those features being considered for the fuuuuture? I may be biased because I have seen first hand it's importance..but I was remembering an account I read in the 3ID History (one has a lot of time on their hands inprocessing into a division) of a WW1 battle which emphasized the use of smoke on the attack while charging trench lines. If I remember it right, the implication was that the correct use of smoke as a screen saved a lot of lives in that particular battle. Perhaps it was not as common especially in the early WW2 years, but it seems like it was mentioned in several accounts I have read of The Winter War and the Eastern Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 ... and we are not talking about White Phosphorus yet. The thread would exponentially grow up if we debate about the lack of WP... "No,we would not include WP : our research shows -while a lot were produced but an important part of them were lost for unkown reason- there are negligeable evidences of using WPs for combat purpose. Instead, they were used for signalling, scorched earth, cooking, smoking cigarettes, firework purpose. It would complete unbalance and make unrealistic the battle . IRL, all officers avoid them for this reason. You don't concieve how dangerous WPs were. It is mostly deadly for the player and your pixel soldiers (they will prefer to wrap from the screen in to the reality to kill you if you don't stop use WP). Even an 50 megaton H bomb is less destructive. Quit the game is a better option,though." Obviously ,this fictionnal quotation is not intented to represent any person, organisation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cincinatvs Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I don't think we will see smoke to cancel troops MVT before TOW 2nd release. By adding smoke you need to set up the AI accordingly (It is not because it can't see a threat anymore that threat is no longer to be taken into account). :eek: On an other hand, IL2 allows to hide in the clouds. Maybe that possibility in IL2 will make smoke adding in TOW easier/sooner§, :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by Cincinatvs: I don't think we will see smoke to cancel troops MVT before TOW 2nd release. By adding smoke you need to set up the AI accordingly (It is not because it can't see a threat anymore that threat is no longer to be taken into account). :eek: On an other hand, IL2 allows to hide in the clouds. Maybe that possibility in IL2 will make smoke adding in TOW easier/sooner§, :confused: Actually, IIRC, IL2 AI could see right through clouds until one of the later patches. This was for the very same reason as described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by thewood: Actually, IIRC, IL2 AI could see right through clouds until one of the later patches. This was for the very same reason as described above. are you saying that was fixed eventually? damn, maybe I should have gotten those final patches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 But clouds are out of scope of the game. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I want flying TigerVI (akakakakakakak47 King Tiger or König Tiger ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 According to our own research (and why there are no smoke grenades in CM for example), smoke grenades have been mainly used for signal purposes Not meaning to issue a big challenge to anyone who amay or may not be the owner or moderator of the board...but... This came up on the ASL discussion boards a while ago and I found the following document while checking it out myself. It's a good read. The Russians seemed to love smoke. A Red Army document on the use of smoke in WWII http://www.redarmystudies.net/smhj/1987/1987_05.pdf On page 27, description of a Russian breakthrough in which 4076 smoke grenades were used in Jan 1944 on the Ukrainian front. Rifle troops making smoke mentionned for the first time! On page 31, description of assault groups in cities setting small frontage 50m-200m smoke screens to cover advances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thewood: Actually, IIRC, IL2 AI could see right through clouds until one of the later patches. This was for the very same reason as described above. are you saying that was fixed eventually? damn, maybe I should have gotten those final patches... </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I thought PF fixed the cloud thing. I'm not as sucky as I thought at IL2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by M Hofbauer: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thewood: Actually, IIRC, IL2 AI could see right through clouds until one of the later patches. This was for the very same reason as described above. are you saying that was fixed eventually? damn, maybe I should have gotten those final patches... </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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