Manx Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 In every screenshot i've seen so far tree coverage seems rather sparse, and always lining roads and field boundaries. Are forests and heavy tree populated maps represented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I have repeatedly asked this question, and have yet to see anything you could describe as a forest, or even areas where tanks and vehicles cannot go. The lack of an equivalent to CM's dense brush, forest and "rough" terrains will wrongly limit the tactical abilities of infantry, and wrongly increase the tactical abilities of vehicles. Not to mention BOCAGE and sunken lanes etc. etc. etc. The following is what Moon could come up with in response to this exact question, and to be fair the accompanying explanation for those screenshots. Originally by Moon in "Blogfront -Screenshots-on-demand" People have been asking for some shots showing more dense terrain. Well, a lot of the terrain in TOW has more density than might be apparent from the usually removed shots. Only as you move in closer with your camera, do you get to see the attention to detail in terrain design. Almost everything you see is accounted for in the cover and concealment calculations, and as such not only a visual gimmick. The next shots show some of the most dense terrain I have found so far in the game (I have not yet seen all the maps), showing a small town in Normandy with a little forest around it. Most maps seem to have this kind of mix of more or less open terrain and then smaller areas of more dense terrain: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Thanks. Now that looks better! The more variety in terrain and it's density, the better. Hopefully there will be enough cover and concealment for infantry, AT/assault guns, mg nests etc. to provide the player with some tactical options whether attacking or defending. While i can understand that heavy cover might not be very practical towards ease of gameplay (viewing/selecting units etc.), i do hope we don't end up fighting over open fields most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Yeah, you won't find a heavy forest with thick undergrowth in the game. Or actually, that's incorrect - you will see them, but they will be usually outside of the playable area. The shots above show some of the most dense playable terrain I found so far but to be honest I have not explored all 50 maps in detail. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Originally posted by Moon: Yeah, you won't find a heavy forest with thick undergrowth in the game. Or actually, that's incorrect - you will see them, but they will be usually outside of the playable area. The shots above show some of the most dense playable terrain I found so far but to be honest I have not explored all 50 maps in detail. Martin Thanks for that Moon. Is this is mainly due to the hit on system requirements that displaying extra terrain elements would add, or like i suggested, more a gameplay issue? The CMBx series gave a pretty good impression of dense terrain with it's forested areas, bush, undergrowth etc., although admittedly, it's graphics look dated now when compared to ToW. I'm still a little concerned that most maps will consist of attacker attacking trench positions over open fields. Setting up a defensive trench system in the middle of a open field dates back to WWI when airpower didn't play a significant role and isn't something that i've read about occuring too often in WWII apart from in the NA campaign. I'm no WWII grog by any means, but i think that most engagements took place over terrain that tactically provided as much cover as possible, especially to the defender, i.e - villages/towns/cities, forests, hills, river crossings etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Welcome back Manx - you seem to be quite scarce of late? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Manx, I presume it's a bit of both. Too dense terrain would be a hit on performance but also a big problem for the interface. Again, CM managed to work around some of this by using a fairly abstracted system where TOW is much more WYSIWYG. You guys haven't seen many maps so far, so the amount of "trench in open terrain" maps is probably skewed in perception at this point. There are over 50 different missions, so there is quite some variety, including meeting engagements or attacks on non-fortified positions. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Originally posted by WineCape: Welcome back Manx - you seem to be quite scarce of late? Indeed it has. Good to see your still around mate. Again, thanks for the quick reply Moon. Appreciated. Like everyone else i guess i'll just have to wait until the beta-demo is released. Talking about that - Release it already!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Originally posted by Manx: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stone75 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Hi, In the trailer for the game you see a sherman run down a tree with what seems little effort. The tree not being exactly small, i would of thought even this a little hard for a tank. Was this early game engine or will tanks be able to carve paths through trees ? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Stone, I think the same as you and have added the following. A light or medium tank should clear small 1 or 2 meter trees in a scattered woods setting w/o much problem assuming they are going at a slower then normal off road speed of 5mph or slower. Medium size trees in a scattered woods i think should take several seconds longer. The tank would approach the tree very slowly ( 1 or 2mph ) to knock it down and hopefully in the process not damage any suspension or track components or get bogged. If tanks are allowed to go thru a forest setting ( tall trees ) i think they should not be able to KO trees but rather navagate slowly ( 1 or 2mph ) around them. Tanks should not enter a Woods setting because of many more densely pacted trees and underbrush and would cause suspension damage and bogging. [ August 24, 2006, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: JoMc67 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Medium to heavy tanks run down trees with little effort, but light tanks and other vehicles (such as trucks) cannot do that, and they will indeed try to navigate around trees. In fact, from my playing it seems like all but the heaviest tanks first try to find alternative paths before knocking down a tree, except if you order a fast move, when they basically look for the most direct path to the designated target. In one of the next blog posts (sorry, I'm a bit delayed on that) I will show vehicle AI where a Cromwell (I think) drives around a wall (which it would be perfectly capable of knocking down) to minimize risk of immbilization. The same is true of trees or crossing trenches etc. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Originally posted by Moon: I have not explored all 50 maps in detail. Martin Why not? You've had it for more than 50 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stone75 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Its good that knocking stuff down carries a risk of immobilization. Its a shame the more dense woodland is not modelled, cant say ive seen too many shots of tanks leaving a trail of knocked over trees behind. I only need to look out of my window and see that some trees near me are easily some 80' tall and maybe 30' wide (I live residential not in a wood) knock a few over and you would have a logistical nightmare with no throughfare wether in a tank or would be slow and dangerous for foot sloggers, climbing through all the branches. How often was a road blocked in the ardennes 44 by demo charge to the base of a tree. Often causing serious delays to the advance of armour on tight roads. While not all trees are big and many would topple to a tank no doubt, some are big and i doubt a KingTiger could budge one. Looking forward to the demo, i believe it will answer many a forum goers questions. Then create a whole lot more Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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