Pichelsteiner Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I'm looking forward to CMC, but i ask myself if there`ll be a legal German Version? The problem isn't the language but the symbols which are forbidden in Germany. Plz create an alterative version with legal stuff, language doesn't matter at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 As a non-german can I ask how do kids study history, don't history books have those symbols? What about WW2 movies? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denwad Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 they aren't forbidden everywhere i believe you just can't use them for glorification of past use or some humdrum like that you see Nazi paraphanelia plenty in the museums and on television documentaries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pichelsteiner Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 Well, there are excluses for school, university and history-books/press. But they have never been used in the case of computer games(once for a comic-book). Computer games with such stuff are not restricted to adults, they get completely banned(e.g. Wolfenstein 3D). It usually takes some time until a game is banned, but you risk to be observed by the secret service "Verfassungsschutz" if you play still "legal" games with Nazi-Symbols. Besides there are some good reasons for this. I wouldnt buy a copy of cmc with Nazi-Stuff anyway and i guess the majority of german cmbb customers won`t. Additionally cmc could only become a best seller in the German Neonazi Scene. Which goes together with a bad reputation and a very, very small market. The Wehrmacht Symbols are generally NOT forbidden, cause it wasn't declared as criminal organisation (as e.g. SS and NSDAP). This means you could use Wehrmacht Symbols and maybe offer a patch for coutries which allow the other stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 So suppose you bought the game online from another country or just plain downloaded pirated version. Are you serious that you'll be spied on by secret services? How are they going to do that? Monitor your internet traffic when you play online? Is it really that serious? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pichelsteiner Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 They have special departements for world wide web monitoring. They are not payed for consuming donuts. Usually they only deal with rightwing Organisations, but they have to check individuals to discover structures. Well how risky is it to use cracked software? Not too risky i guess, but If you keep stuff with illegal symbols on stock, import or export it(this means as soon as u own TWO copies), you will be fined OR you go to jail for UP TO 3 YEARS. And what do you think your neighbours think about you, while the police is searching your house/flat? And as I already said, the broad german majority doesnt't attach any importance to this kind of historical correctness in games. In contrary, the possibility that anyone could feel insulted by this stuff is enough reason to abstain from play games using it. And i think Battlefront prefers to sell some copies to Germany. [ October 16, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Pichelsteiner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 BF.C released a "non-Nazified" version of CMBB in Germany so I assume they would offer the same sort of package to European customers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 And knowing the modding community, it will be a matter of days, if not hours, before swastikas and S.S. designations and leather undergarments whatever else are available for whomever wants to use them! Well, maybe not the leather undergarments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Please, BFC, give me a censored version, i'm a modern German! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Pichelsteiner: They have special departements for world wide web monitoring. They are not payed for consuming donuts. Usually they only deal with rightwing Organisations, but they have to check individuals to discover structures. Well how risky is it to use cracked software? Not too risky i guess, but If you keep stuff with illegal symbols on stock, import or export it(this means as soon as u own TWO copies), you will be fined OR you go to jail for UP TO 3 YEARS. And what do you think your neighbours think about you, while the police is searching your house/flat? And as I already said, the broad german majority doesnt't attach any importance to this kind of historical correctness in games. In contrary, the possibility that anyone could feel insulted by this stuff is enough reason to abstain from play games using it. And i think Battlefront prefers to sell some copies to Germany. Since I'm German, too... I guess you overdo things a little bit. It is not true that Nazi symbols are generally forbidden in Germany. Nobody goes to jail for owning Nazi symbols or whatever with such symbols on it. For example, I own a collection of German WWII stamps and many historic books. It is also not true that individual internet traffic or telephones are monitored by the police - except in a running investigation with court order, indeed anaything else would violate the German constituion. BUT it is forbidden to use and trade such materials for propaganda purposes, or, shall we say, in a down playing way. As example, to wear a T-Shirt with swastika (as the punk rocker Sid Vicious did) would surely cause you problems, to use it inside a computer game without any deeper sense surely, too (Wolfenstein, for example). But on the other hand, I remember a computer wargame (forgotten which one) with swastikas and runes, and nowbody cared. Now, if CMC would be avaiable from the US with swastika, runes and all the stuff in, it would not violate German law to buy and play the game. You possibly will get a problem if you try to sell the game from Germany, but only if this was forbidden by court order or similiar first. Of course it is better to avoid any problems by replacing the swastika flags with a German cross, for example. I guess not even the US customers would be unhappy with this. Or in short words, modern Germany is aware and not proud of this part of it's history, but it's not Third Reich any more, even if some British newspapers still prefer to see us that way - may I remind on the 'Panzer Pope'? [ October 17, 2005, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: Scipio ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 The Pope? How many Panzer Divisions does HE have?!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertston Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 A censored German version seems a reasonable idea PROVIDED nobody else has it forced on them as well. Fortunately, I think we saw the last of that with CM2/CMBB. I would feel rather sorry for those in Germany who value historical accuracy above political correctness, though. It wasn't so much the absence of swastikas that bothered me in CM2 as the inclusion of the 'wafflegrenadiers'. Denying that the Waffen SS existed goes beyond 'political correctness' into the realm of 'absurd re-writing of history', and is totally inappropriate to a game centred around realism and historical accuracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 The Swastika is actually problematic in games and other places such as model airplanes. But of course all the museums display it on models are real equipment. But it should be pointed out that CDV removed the word "Waffen-SS" on their own account. They are not forbidden and nobody ever got into trouble with it. This was a precaution on CDVs part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pichelsteiner Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Scipio: Its exact the way I wrote. You'll be fined or go to jail up tp 3 years if you keep stuff on stock, export or import it. Is a computer-game declined as illegal owning TWO copies of it CAN be seen as holding stuff on stock(even owning TWO flyers with illegal contain CAN be enough). Verfassungschutz: Monitoring the www is an all day job of them. They check forums and chatrooms constantly. When the police stops your car and finds a cd-rom with illegal content on your backseed they WILL SEARCH YOUR appartement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Sergei: The Pope? How many Panzer Divisions does HE have?!? Hehe, BTW the Rat is not a lot of things and one of those things is not being Pope Pius XII, now their was a real Nazi collaborator if ever there was one! {Hot tip for Fleet Street.) (I thought the Stassi was shut down and completely disbanded along with the rest of the DDR, or did the DFR started to re-instate it in order to soak up some Ostie unemployment!) [ October 17, 2005, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Pichelsteiner: Verfassungschutz: Monitoring the www is an all day job of them. They check forums and chatrooms constantly. When the police stops your car and finds a cd-rom with illegal content on your backseed they WILL SEARCH YOUR appartement. Yep, it is the Zionist Occupation Government/Freemason/United Nations/World Trade Organization/European Union/Zürich Bankers/Space Lobsters conspiracy. Now log out, format your hard drive, and run to the mountains before the Gestapo tracks you down!!!!!! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pichelsteiner Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 Well Sergei, maybe you think they are waiting until someone knocks to their office door and says: "Hello my Name is Adolph and I want to establish an anti-constitutional organisation and advertise for it by the internet." But believe me they don't. Collecting informations via internet is really not a big thing. And it's not so unusual that they search your flat, if the police finds warez with u they'll do the same. I just want to show how important a "German variant" of cmc for all german CMBB-fans is. I don't disagree with the german laws or the methods of the Verfassungsschutz. [ October 17, 2005, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Pichelsteiner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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