winkelried Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Didn't find anything in the manual or in the game on Syrian AA assets. Just some ZSU-23-4 or some MANPADs to frighten the Apaches. Can anybody help? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Abstracted. The support may not always come through, I believe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 No ZSUs on map? I didn't see them yet, I was hoping that was just for lack of a list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 ZSUs would be well back from the frontline, with the arty and the SAMs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: ZSUs would be well back from the frontline, with the arty and the SAMs. I thought the whole point of a ZSU was to create a mobile AAA shield against low flying helicopters and aircraft that would otherwise pummel an armored formation. I'm not campaigning to have them put in, I'm just saying your argument doens't make all that much sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: ZSUs would be well back from the frontline, with the arty and the SAMs. No. ZSUs are designed to protect mobile columns of tanks and other armored vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I did alot of the Syrian TO&E for CMSF BF is talking about the possibility of expansion packs adding in more Nato forces to be released down the line Each of these expansion packs will of course add Nato forces like I said but there is also the possibility of adding in more Red forces AA guns and mobile AA guns are things I am going to add onto my list of things to add in future expansions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 But they are a limited asset and are normally used to protect formation HQ (BDE +) as well as defiles and other choke points on routes. You wont find them with the forward Combat Reconnaissance Patrol or the first echelon (which is the sort of action that CM:SF depicts). Their effects (just like SAM's, EW, etc.) might be felt forward and this may well be modelled in an abstract sense in determining the effectiveness of the air support itself. CM:SF doesn't cover the Deep Battle where these assets physically reside. Now the absence of SA-7, etc. is a different story but again I think it is handled in an abstract sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Rock of Easy Company Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Do planes and Helo's even fly over the map? I haven't seen a shadow yet, just munitions coming from outside the map. I would think you would hear or see something if either the A10 or apache used their 30mm's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 No I haven't seen a shadow yet either. All you see are the "terminal effects" of the munitions. I'm pretty sure fast air / helo flight paths and attack runs are also abstracted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Sgt.Rock of Easy Company: Do planes and Helo's even fly over the map? I haven't seen a shadow yet, just munitions coming from outside the map. I would think you would hear or see something if either the A10 or apache used their 30mm's Even an A-10 does its work at several thousand feet You would not hear or see a thing besides maybe a jet engine But by that time it would be several miles away and the effects of its ordance probably already seen or heard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pad152 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Sense you can't pick or buy your forces in quick battles, I don't know how much use they would be! I can just it it now ending up with 14 ZSU's as a random force and nothing else! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by rudel.dietrich: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sgt.Rock of Easy Company: Do planes and Helo's even fly over the map? I haven't seen a shadow yet, just munitions coming from outside the map. I would think you would hear or see something if either the A10 or apache used their 30mm's Even an A-10 does its work at several thousand feet You would not hear or see a thing besides maybe a jet engine But by that time it would be several miles away and the effects of its ordance probably already seen or heard </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by gibsonm: You wont find them with the forward Combat Reconnaissance Patrol or the first echelon (which is the sort of action that CM:SF depicts). CM:SF doesn't cover the Deep Battle where these assets physically reside. But it does cover asymmetrical combat right? What about defense of airfields and other critical infrastructure.....I am again shocked to find a unit that represents such an iconic piece of kit left out of the game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Can the ZSU even depress its guns for ground combat. Just curious. If it can't I am fine with abstracting it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Rock of Easy Company Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 it should be able to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: Can the ZSU even depress its guns for ground combat. Just curious. If it can't I am fine with abstracting it. Yes it can, very effectively as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Looking at it, its seems like it would have a very limited ability to depress past horizontal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLM2 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I was at the National Training Center and I was near some people playing as snipers on a rooftop. We heard these weird whistling sounds up in the sky. I looked up and I didnt know what it was. Looked like someone was shooting up fireworks they left swirling tracks in the air. After a while I noticed there were 2 A 10s flying way up shooting flares or some fake stuff at us. Definately didnt hear anything, they were so far up I thought they were drones for a minute 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Thunderbird: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gibsonm: You wont find them with the forward Combat Reconnaissance Patrol or the first echelon (which is the sort of action that CM:SF depicts). CM:SF doesn't cover the Deep Battle where these assets physically reside. But it does cover asymmetrical combat right? What about defense of airfields and other critical infrastructure.....I am again shocked to find a unit that represents such an iconic piece of kit left out of the game? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by PLM2: I was at the National Training Center and I was near some people playing as snipers on a rooftop. We heard these weird whistling sounds up in the sky. I looked up and I didnt know what it was. Looked like someone was shooting up fireworks they left swirling tracks in the air. After a while I noticed there were 2 A 10s flying way up shooting flares or some fake stuff at us. Definately didnt hear anything, they were so far up I thought they were drones for a minute They were flares. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterLorre86 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 From Wikipedia on the ZSU "The turret is fully stabilised and capable of firing on the move. It has a range of elevation from -4° to +85°" Also "HEI-T (High Explosive Incendiary-Tracer), and API-T (Armour-Piercing Incendiary-Tracer) rounds are fired. They can be fired to a maximum horizontal range of 7 km (4.3 mi), and a vertical range of 5.1 km (3.2 mi). The effective anti-aircraft range is around 2 to 2.5 km (1.3 to 1.6 mi). In attacking targets on the ground, its effective range is 2 km (1.3 mi)." So yes it could be used in a direct fire ground role, probably effectivly against infantry and light armour, such as the stryker. And since it is stated above that the effective AA range is 2-2.5km, they would not be beyond the scope of the battles in CMSF. It would be nice to see them, but i would rather some bugs get worked out first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 -4 depression would seem to give it a pretty big blind spot. Once again, I am not talking from a vantage of knowledge, just curious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Mr. Lorre, Did you happen to notice the Shilka's rate of fire (and the number of rounds carried)? As I recall, it carries some 2000 rounds and fires at something like 200 rounds per burst, with a cyclic rate of some 4000 rounds per minute so I'm guessing it wont take long to expend its ammunition. So even if you had it I don't think it would influence the ground battle for long. I think we need to get away from the idea of Flak panzers / halftracks participating in the ground battle which was possible in CMx1 and get them back to influencing the air battle, which after all is what they are designed to do as part of an integrated air defence system. Oh and say hello to Sam and the Falcon for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Syria has - 675 57mm AA guns 300 37mm AA guns 400 23mm Quad AA (ZSU) 650 14.5mm Dual AA (ZPU) 4000 SA-7 manpads These would be quite important in the ground combat, not just the air war, and particularly dangerous to the lighter APCs in the US force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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