Armor Company commanders?

[Shmavis]

I've asked about this in the past with CMBB and just wanted to know if it might be a feature for CMx2. Mainly, in case a platoon command tank is knocked out, the company commander can assume command of the stricken platoon. Also, having an intact armor company in a scenario instead of a bunch of separate platoons would be just neato by me. I'll buy the game, either way, but was curious. The rest of you can debate the historical accuracy.

[Dillweed]

from what I understand the command structure in CMx2 is very very different. Apperently company commanders actually matter, they are not just for waiting around for the LTs to get popped.

[gibsonm]

For what its worth, in reality Coy (or Sqn) commanders don't reach down and start controlling Pl's (or Tp's) if the LT is KIA.

OC's have enough on their plate commanding the other PL's or TP's as entities without ordering individual vehicles which they can't see because the HQ is to the rear somewhere.

Subordinates (usually the TP / PL Sgt) assume command in an upwards direction.

[M1A1TC]

Dont forget, there are always the experienced Platoon Sergeant that can do the job. Thats what I found in my personal experience when losing my Lt. Most people seem to underestimate the NCO corps, and they are completely unrepresented in CM games

CO would never take charge of a single platoon. He got bigger fish to fry, like taking charge of the whole company

[Ardem]

Totally agree, the expericenced NCO's creates more of the backbone and rallying of the troops more so then the Officer.

Infantry is a little different then the armour.

I imagine when you wipe out the plt unit, you wipe out the XO, plt sgt, and other people who lead the unit.

So when the plt unit is gone who will step up to the plate to take over the plt. Which Squad leader?

Armour - when the tank leader dies, you would have the next tank commander in line to take over, so it be nice to see the lines of command transfer to him.

[Battlefront.com]

In the modern US Army, at least, the immediate replacement for a fallen Platoon Leader (infantry or armor) is the Platoon SGT. And that makes sense since he is defacto 2nd and command. After the battle things might get sorted out by an officer coming from another unit to take over, but I'd suspect "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" would be the logic until a period of downtime was reached.

Steve

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

In the modern US Army, at least, the immediate replacement for a fallen Platoon Leader (infantry or armor) is the Platoon SGT. And that makes sense since he is defacto 2nd and command. After the battle things might get sorted out by an officer coming from another unit to take over, but I'd suspect "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" would be the logic until a period of downtime was reached.

Steve

In the CW too - unless the Troop Sergeant was LOB...?

I am wondering - in the event the Squadron OC is killed, would it be likely for a SSM to take over the squadron (in the absence of a Sqn 2 i/c), or would a SSM ever take over a Troop?

[Shmavis]

Yes, I realize company/squadron commanders are "busy" men and that NCOs have a great part to play in maintaining unit cohesion when, say, a platoon/troop leader is incapacitated. There could be a sizable delay to simulate the shifting of command to another vehicle, the completion of which could be indicated by new red command lines, as Ardem said. The new command unit would be of reduced quality, of course, making for longer command delays. I guess this is already accurately simulated by the remaining vehicles being "out-of-command" when a platoon HQ bites the dust.

Anyway, considering how many times I've seen infantry battalion HQs end up in command of platoons in CM, and that these games are about tactical combat simulation, not command & control simulation(or whatever term applies), I thought the idea was worthy of mention.

[gibsonm]

Michael,

My SSM's were always looking after the ech. Rarely at SHQ (I think its a Warrant Officer thing).

The usual process is outlined in orders along the lines of:

Seniority: OC, 2IC, 11, 12, 13

So if the 2IC is away Tp ldr 1Tp takes over the Sqn, with Tp Sgt 1Tp taking over the Tp.

Then when the dust settles and the 2IC gets back from coffee and cigars, he would assume comd of the Sqn with 11 reverting back to 1Tp and the Tp Sgt reverting to 11A.

[Renaud]

We didn't get armor companies in CMx1, so we aren't likely to get them in CMx2 which is supposed to be smaller scale. But yea, I would have liked full armor companies in CMx1 with CO and XO tanks (at least for western OOB's, just CO tank for Russian).

I often cherry pick squads from unexceptional platoon leaders and combine them into a 'reserve' force under a decent Company CO unit. Sometimes I even strip all squads from totally vanilla PLT leaders and use those LT's for recon duty. Elite LRRP I call them. Other times I just use the orphaned leader units for static spotting duty since they have bino's.

Someone will be along shortly to point out this is a-historical poo-poo, gamey, etc. Simulated or real combat is about what works, toss the rest. Reenactments are a different matter.

[jrcar]

In some resarch I'm doing on WW2 Australian companies (usually commanded by a MAJ) are commanded by MAJ, CAPT and sometimes "experianced" LT's. Pl are commanded by LT or SGT.

The CSM is needed to sort out the admin.

Although we do teach our WO2 Coy level tactics on the WO course today.

Cheers

Rob

[mattwagner]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

In the modern US Army, at least, the immediate replacement for a fallen Platoon Leader (infantry or armor) is the Platoon SGT. And that makes sense since he is defacto 2nd and command.

Steve

In my scout squadron, the LT was unofficially 2nd in command. And the replacement for an LT was a few wisecracks.

Honestly though, my platoon had a couple of kick ass LTs come through... probably because they were both prior enlisted. But... as far as things go at the enlisted level, there was never any doubt as to who really ran the show.

I can't fathom this being a new thing... but it seems like war movies always show officers calling all the shots and the PSG and 1SG staring off into space, let alone getting any camera time.

[Battlefront.com]

Matt,

A study of WWII losses shows that 1LT and 2LTs were by far the position of highest turnover. IIRC upwards of 300%. Ouch. From various sources it appears that the fresh LTs who decided to let their NCOs run the show lived a lot longer, as did the members of their unit, than the ones that insisted that a bunch of months in a classroom were more important than slugging it out for months or years in a real battlefield. Darwin's Laws at work.

Steve

[mattwagner]

I think the reason why things ran the way I saw them during my enlistment was that there was a strong sentiment(from command) that the LTs were just in the platoons for training and should watch and learn. I think there is a strong focus on that in other combat arms branches as well.