J Ruddy Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Indirect FF is a no brainer, but to follow up an earlier thread on MultiPLayer/Batallion command, I am wondering about single/two player direct friendly fire within the Tac-AI. One example is: (East Front - Urban Combat) I have a captured T34 (radioless) that I send ahead to scout out a blind alley. The T34/76 disappears around the corner and engages a Russian T34/76. As the battle progresses a T34/76 tank exits from the blind alley. Having a 'Battle God View' I know this is my tank. But my Wespe crew 300M away doesn't. They are not in contact with the tank and they can't be 100% sure if it is friend or foe. What do they do? A Wespe has no chance of taking a direct hit from the Russian 76. I imagine they examine the markings on the turret, is it a German cross? Do they misidentify the markings and fire on their own tank? Is this even in the scope of CMX2? I think that a Pre 1900 type battle, where Volleys were fired, if you are agressive enough to charge your cavalry in to a unit that you are also firing volleys into, that some kind of FF would be required to avoid 'gamey' play (Charging Cavalry in front of a firing friendly unit for example) Finally, if >2 player multiplayer play is implemented at some point and some Green Yank in an M10 misidentifies another players British Cromwell as a Panzer III, could he shoot first, ask questions later...? (Imagine the radio chatter! Cease Fire!!! Cease Fire!!! What the (bleep!)... Bloody Yanks!!!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Amen - I'm hoping this makes it into the three+ player version. It'll be a gas...albeit, most likely poison gas... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I think, albeit realistic, it would be too much of an annoyance for the player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I find myself wondering what a player is doing sending a radioless tank out to scout, fer crissake!??? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: I find myself wondering what a player is doing sending a radioless tank out to scout, fer crissake!??? Michael I'm sure they have an ample supply of postcards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Ruddy Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 OK - bad example (or bad commander) (or bad situation) (or bad revenge on the tank crew who stole all of my looted Vodka!) If memory serves, one of the bones was that BF was hoping to implement systems damage - so lets say in the brief tank exchange some internal flaking fried the radio... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruf9ii Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 im not sure if this is exactly what your talking about but here goes... a while ago in CMAK i had a squad area fire at a 'wooded tile' and had an adjacent squad (20m or so) assault the wood (which was about 40m away). turned out the wood was clear and no enemy squads fired, but my assaulting squad took casualties and was pinned. i can only assume this was a result of the area fire of the covering squad. kind of annoying, but cool in retrospect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCloak Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I think friendly fire is already modelled into the game, especially when there are flyboys in the area. I seem to recall a situation that had my Green troops firing at friendly squads as they attempted to flank the enemy in a nightfight. I didn't give them any commands to fire, but there they were, happily firing away at their own men. I had to manually 'Cancel Target' for several Green squads as they seemed determined to kill the men from 2nd platoon. This just gives me another reason to hate Green troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Well, I did see an enemy HMG unit get credit for eliminating their own AT gun during a night QB in the rain. OK, I was assaulting the AT gun at the time (I didn't see it until about 10m away!), but in the process of spraying my assault squads, they seemed to take out the gun as well. I didn't have an AT gun and none of my guys got credit for it, but one of the enemy did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I have mis-timed an advance after an artillery barrage and had the spotter get credit for the friendly casualties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 During a night assault my own 81mm mortars were about 500m off target, took out a few guys from my flanking platoon and pinned them. Also advanced a sqaud through my mg line of fire took out about 4 guys, and assaulted a squad and my own supression fire did as much damage to the assaulting squad as the defender did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denwad Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 i've had actual FF occur at a night battle in CMBO friendly squad targeted another friendly squad, for like 30 seconds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 It's a pisser. I'm doing a capaign attack with a infantry battalion and up until the AI flanked me in a counter attack I'd killed more GIs than the the Germans had. That sort of simulation is embarasing but Great! By the way was the squad under friendly fire attacking or near an enemy squad? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpwase Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Friendly fire at night is common, methinks. It's just squads firing at what it thinks is the enemy, usually. Tar, that enemy HMG might have been firing at its own AT gun...>_> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I suspect that it was, since in the current game, you can't actually miss with small arms fire and hit a different unit. At most small arms (MG, anyway) can suppress nearby units, but not do them actual harm. They can only harm the target. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Deliberate friendly fire is only a part of the problem. In CMx1 an infantry squad can happily walk around in front of a friendly MG firing at some enemy infantry in the distance. Not exactly realistic. I hope BFC can do something about that for CMx2. Dschugaschwili 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Steve's post in this thread says its a BIG deal to fix and get right LOS and LOF and you and friendly fire the last page has some good posts by Steve see the link above Battlefront.com Administrator Member # 42 posted September 18, 2005 03:14 PM quote: As it stands now, an LOS computation will be made to determine whether things are in sight or not. Now if this LOS check, if unblocked were recorded in such a manner that it was easy to find all LOS vectors close to the one chosen to shoot along (say by maintaining azimuth and elevation from spotter?), then the potential targets for the danger zone would also be identified. True. This is how MGs are simulated in CMx1. The problem is, there is no line being traced from the source to any of the other affected targets. Therefore, we aren't simulating the side targets actually getting shot at. Just having a suppression effect from MG fire coming in their geneal direction. To start hitting these neighboring units we would have to do direct LOF checks because how pissed would you be if you were losing guys who were adjacent to the targeted unit but themselves were not in LOF with the shooter? Friendly units does indeed make for a whole nother problem. quote: Operating under the assumption that most lines of fire would, in fact, be clear We can make no such assumption. The system must assume that these lanes are clogged with enemy and/or friendly units. It must also assume there needs to be a unique lane from the source of fire to the ultimate destination of it. It's a real hardware killer situation no matter how you slice it. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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