Fed up

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

So it seems we're past "getting it" or "not getting it", eh?

Some of you are now well into rationalizing a poor product roll out, odd game mechanics and UI, flawed documentation, compounded by lousy customer communication, and etc, and moving into demonizing customers, (and potential customers), not willing to suspend disbelief and agree the emperor has a fine set of clothes.

People stuck in a time warp just can't be helped.

What was WAS... What is IS... what shall be WILL BE...see if you can get that. Shouldn't be too, too difficult as it's linear thinking...usually easy for engineers.

The Facts are these: BFC announced in Aug that incremental patches would be needed. V1.04 made the game playable for most..Finally. But not all. BFC is working on an apparently significant patch and has kept "we're working on it" updates coming very regularly. Most forum readers expect some degree of make or break on V 1.05. I don't know that to be true but sounds good to me. Potential customers need to know that. Comments from you and others are predictable in their distaste for this game and BFC management. There is another view, not clouded by vitriol or supposed slights and insults, that is actually the majority view: I play the game, I like the game, and I'll see what BFC can do to improve game play, LOS/LOF, TCP for WEGO and QB. If they can Great...I knew it along. If they can't then a heaping bowl of crow for them...and if you like...for me.

[Kite]

I don't know why I do, but I come here daily and read about the game. I bought the game about a month ago and haven't installed it yet, waiting for 1.05. It's sitting right next to my keyboard, ready to go.

While it does appear that every day someone starts a new thread taunting the devs to speak (or else!) I like that they've remained silent. Truly, their work will speak for itself. Later, when folks are looking for ammunition about why they hate or love the game, they will not be able to use the developers words against them. It's difficult to predict how all the hardwork will be received and with all the drama on these forums lately, I just cannot blame them for staying out of it.

I worked in the game industry for 5 years and let me tell you, it's a rollercoaster ride, and that's not including interfacing with customers. At least BFC is working on a game they love and support. I think it will show, just as it has in the past.

Patiently waiting in concealed cover...

[MarkEzra]

Kite: That's way too rational...and welcome to the family!!

[KAding]

I think silence is a good strategy by BTS. People here are spoiled by this constant discussion with the development team. It's getting so bad that their words are constantly used against them.

Better keep quiet, which 99% of the other companies do!

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by MarkEzra:

There is another view, not clouded by vitriol or supposed slights and insults, that is actually the majority view: I play the game, I like the game

Huh? Nothing Ive seen would indicate this. The reviews are bland, and the forums are "dead". Not exactly what I would expect if this game was played and enjoyed by so many as you seem to indicate.

[dalem]

Originally posted by MarkEzra:

People stuck in a time warp just can't be helped.

That's the spirit! Don't search for a longer stick to stretch to a drowning man, let him drown! It's his fault for getting in the water in the first place.

What was WAS... What is IS... what shall be WILL BE...see if you can get that. Shouldn't be too, too difficult as it's linear thinking...usually easy for engineers.

So Sayeth the Lord, eh?

The Facts are these: BFC announced in Aug that incremental patches would be needed. V1.04 made the game playable for most..Finally. But not all. BFC is working on an apparently significant patch and has kept "we're working on it" updates coming very regularly. Most forum readers expect some degree of make or break on V 1.05. I don't know that to be true but sounds good to me. Potential customers need to know that. Comments from you and others are predictable in their distaste for this game and BFC management. There is another view, not clouded by vitriol or supposed slights and insults, that is actually the majority view: I play the game, I like the game, and I'll see what BFC can do to improve game play, LOS/LOF, TCP for WEGO and QB. If they can Great...I knew it along. If they can't then a heaping bowl of crow for them...and if you like...for me.

Another fact is this: I can call the cable company, one of the most loathed utilities in the country, and get a human to speak with me every time.

There are times when the reality doesn't matter and perception takes over.

-dale

[Sixxkiller]

Can't you guys just give it a bit of a rest until 1.05 is ready and out to you? We know some of you arent happy, you say it in every thread. No one at BFC is blind or illiterate. They have seen and comprehended your previous gripes. Now give it a rest....

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

We know some of you arent happy, you say it in every thread.

Relax Sixx, had it not been for the complaining you would have nothing to read on this forum.

[dynaman200]

Another fact is this: I can call the cable company, one of the most loathed utilities in the country, and get a human to speak with me every time.

Now that is a low blow! I never get anyone human when I call the cable company.

[Sixxkiller]

I am relaxed. Playing 1.05 and loving it for the most part. I can only hope most of you guys will agree but I wont hold my breath. Hoping there will also be less to read soon here.

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by Panzer76:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MarkEzra:

There is another view, not clouded by vitriol or supposed slights and insults, that is actually the majority view: I play the game, I like the game

Huh? Nothing Ive seen would indicate this. The reviews are bland, and the forums are "dead". Not exactly what I would expect if this game was played and enjoyed by so many as you seem to indicate. </font>

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by dalem:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MarkEzra:

People stuck in a time warp just can't be helped.

That's the spirit! Don't search for a longer stick to stretch to a drowning man, let him drown! It's his fault for getting in the water in the first place.

What was WAS... What is IS... what shall be WILL BE...see if you can get that. Shouldn't be too, too difficult as it's linear thinking...usually easy for engineers.

So Sayeth the Lord, eh?

The Facts are these: BFC announced in Aug that incremental patches would be needed. V1.04 made the game playable for most..Finally. But not all. BFC is working on an apparently significant patch and has kept "we're working on it" updates coming very regularly. Most forum readers expect some degree of make or break on V 1.05. I don't know that to be true but sounds good to me. Potential customers need to know that. Comments from you and others are predictable in their distaste for this game and BFC management. There is another view, not clouded by vitriol or supposed slights and insults, that is actually the majority view: I play the game, I like the game, and I'll see what BFC can do to improve game play, LOS/LOF, TCP for WEGO and QB. If they can Great...I knew it along. If they can't then a heaping bowl of crow for them...and if you like...for me.

Another fact is this: I can call the cable company, one of the most loathed utilities in the country, and get a human to speak with me every time.

There are times when the reality doesn't matter and perception takes over.

-dale </font>

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by MarkEzra:

This forum not dead like you keep saying...most of us just waiting...You are clearly in need of glasses.

Oh Im sorry, its just that Im used with the activity level of the CMx1 forums... but this is great!

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by Panzer76:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MarkEzra:

This forum not dead like you keep saying...most of us just waiting...You are clearly in need of glasses.

Oh Im sorry, its just that Im used with the activity level of the CMx1 forums... but this is great! </font>

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by MarkEzra:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panzer76:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MarkEzra:

This forum not dead like you keep saying...most of us just waiting...You are clearly in need of glasses.

Oh Im sorry, its just that Im used with the activity level of the CMx1 forums... but this is great! </font>

[thewood]

I said I wasn't going to post again until 1.05 came out. I couldn't resist this one:

I still can't believe that some people can't just admit there is something wrong with this game right now. I still think it has a lot of potential, but to sit around and talk about how great 1.05 is smacks of just plain rudeness as the rest of us sit on a game we really can't play the way it was meant to be played. btw, A lot of the beta testers said the same thing about 1.04.

As far as scenarios go, 4 months after release and less than 50 scenarios and 98% of them around 200 downloads does not say a lot in relation to CMBO. I actually went back and checked the dates on my CMBO archive and within 4 months of release I had over 200 scenarios. Don't know what that means, but it does add to forum traffic and buzz on the web to give a clear picture. As far as the tech forum goes, take a look at how many legit questions went completely unanswered. That is your answer to the quiet on that forum. I think the quiet on the tactics and tech forum say a lot about the state of CMSF.

I have no problem with a disagreement about whether someone likes the game or its playable, thats personal preference. I won't and shouldn't argue that. But to make any claim that there has not been something wrong with CMSF since release is both revisionist and fanboism. BFC has both admitted it directly through Steve, and indirectly through silence. As I have said before, they are not quiet because everything is working great.

Web traffic in the scenario forums is less that 5 posts a day. I saw it go 4 days without a post last week. Show me another non-BFC forum where CMSF is being discussed beyond a post a week. I can't blame anyone from coming and thinking there is something wrong. Forum traffic alone screams out that something is amiss to anyone familiar with BFC forums.

For your consideration:

Why is the Peng thread the most popular thread? Why is the second most popular this one? If there is such a great community like CM1, why are those forums still as active as this one? If its just people playing, why only 200 downloads for less than 50 scenarios? Why all the poor reviews? Why can't I ever find an MP game? Why does BFC not answer valid questions on game play from loyal customers? Why is the sky blue?

I want CMSF to work. I think the 1:1 and graphics are the needed step forward. The key is I want them to actually work. Today, in 1.04, I can't get by a lot of the bugs and I can't get reasonable explanations on how the game is supposed to work. If 1.05 and BFC's reemergence fixes that, I am all for CMSF. But we are 4 months in and only a little closer to where most people expected CMSF to be on July 27.

The last thing I want to point out is that it is also the same 5 or 6 people in general coming in and trying to say there is nothing wrong with CMSF or getting offended when its criticized. And most of them seem to be beta-testers.

My rants go on because in the last four months I have found doing this or criticizing the Stryker concept one of the few ways to get a response from BFC. Actually asking a real game question does not seem to do it.

[dalem]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

I am relaxed. Playing 1.05 and loving it for the most part. I can only hope most of you guys will agree but I wont hold my breath. Hoping there will also be less to read soon here.

See, this is a great example.

I assume you're some kind of betatester since you have 1.05. You're not allowed to say anything detailed because of your NDA.

That makes perfect sense.

You ARE allowed, however, to swagger around the board and wave your banana hammock in the faces of the few customers and potential customers who are desperate for some information and still check in here.

That makes NO sense. That's indicative of a lack of BFC's interest in policing their Betatesters. I mean, you hope you don't sign up a bunch of lame-os, but hope isn't enough - you have to make sure they're not making you look bad.

-dale

[MarkEzra]

2000 downloads of one scen not enough for you...?

Comparing Forum use then and now? I am well aware of how active AND inactive CMx1 forums can be...and I'm always pleased to see the CM community active... But "active" is a VERY relative term. I currently play 3 PBEMs...all with old CMBO friends....Guys for the most part who stopped playing CM anything years ago. They're having fun with this game and so am I. We re-connected with CM:SF. I figure that is active enough for me. But I must repeat 2000 downloads of one scen is nothing to sneeze at...especially with such a troubled game history as this one.

[Webwing]

I'm not a beta tester.

I read about the game and what people thought about it before I bought it.

I like the concept of CMSF.

Would have done it differently though.

I paid for the game.

I see bugs and problems.

1.05 is not going to solve them all.

I enjoy the game as is and I'm having fun with it.

Why do I feel like I have to justify myself?

People take all this discussion so personaly because for instance: When some say that the game is unplayable, flawed beyond repair, etc. it somehow implies that if you do like it you must be a blind fool with very low standards.

I'm sure that's not what people that are criticizing the game meant.

I think this forum is the right place to complain and express your disappointment if that is the case. Most people make legitimate complains of some things that make the game horrible for them.

Fine.

But I imagine that unfortunately this sort of posts scare off the people that like the game.

--

[ November 27, 2007, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[76mm]

Originally posted by MarkEzra:

2000 downloads of one scen not enough for you...?...But I must repeat 2000 downloads of one scen is nothing to sneeze at...

Please give it a rest with the 2000 downloads for ONE, (1), a SINGLE scenario. I actually think it is really lame that only one scenario has seen that kind of popularity, especially given the deep unpopularity/unusability of quick battles in CM:SF. Or are there more great scenarios available for the 1.05 beta-testers that us riff-raff are not granted access to?

[Cpl Steiner]

The game has obviously not been well received in the computer gaming community. Here are some figures I got from a simple 5 minute search on Google.

Metacritic Scores

I hope 1.05 makes some big improvements but until then I think the evidence is on the side of the whiners.

[Sixxkiller]

What's your point here dale? I mean I fail to understand why you sit at your keyboard and try to mount an attack on me. I mean what did I really say that would get this sort of attention?

And ya obviously I am a beta tester, playing 1.05, and as I stated, loving it for the most part. My swagger as you call it, I fail to see WTF that has to do with anything, and to top it off, what swagger? I made a statement that had nothing to do with the NDA and wasn't run by BFC before I made it.

And BTW, this may be the reason why you "potential customers" and "owners" of CMSF may not be getting the information you think you deserve. I mean attacking me for an innoculous statement that I was enjoying the game ... No wonder you arent getting any info, attacking the people giving you it. Real smart.

Seriously did you even buy the game dale or are you just trolling? Talk about someone needing "policing".

Originally posted by dalem:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

I am relaxed. Playing 1.05 and loving it for the most part. I can only hope most of you guys will agree but I wont hold my breath. Hoping there will also be less to read soon here.

See, this is a great example.

I assume you're some kind of betatester since you have 1.05. You're not allowed to say anything detailed because of your NDA.

That makes perfect sense.

You ARE allowed, however, to swagger around the board and wave your banana hammock in the faces of the few customers and potential customers who are desperate for some information and still check in here.

That makes NO sense. That's indicative of a lack of BFC's interest in policing their Betatesters. I mean, you hope you don't sign up a bunch of lame-os, but hope isn't enough - you have to make sure they're not making you look bad.

-dale </font>

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Sixxkiller]

Sadly Web, the majority of the complaints, while having some merit, are made in a tactless spirit by just a few members. What I mean is it's fine to find bugs, tell BFC about them, but to harp and harp and harp about them in every post is a bit redundant.

Funny thing is people assume that being a beta-tester means we dont do **** but sit here and have fun and laugh about the idiotic posts on the forums. We are friggen customers too, but everytime we disagree with any other posters here, we are labeled "fan-boi's" or we have our character called into question. Then when we "customers" of the game fight back at the attacks, we hear how we are bad PR for BFC...

Then you have someone attack MarkEzra for doing his damndest to improve CM's experience by having a site that hosts user created maps. I mean the guy disagrees with someone and provides a figure about a map having x ammount of downloads, and gets labasted for his trouble...

Sadly there isnt much anygame would do for most of these complainers. I mean if one thing is fixed they bitch about something else. They refuse to see the game as a whole. What can you actually do about that? But before I was a tester I was a human, and I refuse to sit here and take crap from anyone who spews this crap.

BFC has been making this game better everyday. You either choose to wait and see or find something else to do. Your choice....

Originally posted by Webwing:

I'm not a beta tester.

I read about the game and what people thought about it before I bought it.

I like the concept of CMSF.

Would have done it differently though.

I paid for the game.

I see bugs and problems.

1.05 is not going to solve them all.

I enjoy the game as is and I'm having fun with it.

Why do I feel like I have to justify myself?

People take all this discussion so personaly because for instance: When some say that the game is unplayable, flawed beyond repair, etc. it somehow implies that if you do like it you must be a blind fool with very low standards.

I'm sure that's not what people that are criticizing the game meant.

I think this forum is the right place to complain and express your disappointment if that is the case. Most people make legitimate complains of some things that make the game horrible for them.

Fine.

But I imagine that unfortunately this sort of posts scare off the people that like the game.

--

[MarkEzra]

76: My pleasure to give it a rest I too think it's a silly argument...Forum activity and what it means. Here's my actual only point. I enjoy playing the game. I talk with others who feel the same...on this forum. I do that when the mood strikes me. I do not come on this forum to pick fights or denigrate members of the CM community. When seemingly every positive comment is pounded on by people who don't like the game, don't play the game, won't bother buying another BFC product, ad nauseum...well that kind of ridicule can only be tolerated so long. So I'll put it out to you this way

1. I liked the game. Liked it right away.

2. The game had a TERRIBLE start and many are justifiable pissed.

3. I'm not one of them

4. I think BFC picked itself up off the mat and got in gear fixing this game.

5. I don't think it has been a waste of their time.

6. It hasn't been a waste of mine.

7. BFC has commented on patch progress right along. Some say that they want or need more complete info.

8. I'm not one of them

9. Some say that v1.05 will decide if the CMx2 engine can be successful or not.

10. I don't REALLY know but I lean that way.

11. Will I continue to play CM:SF...Yes

12. Will I pre-purchase future BFC products...Yes

So this should clear up any doubts about my motives when posting. If your views are the same or diametrically different...say so and then we can all move on. In the mean time I'll play and wait for the patch.