Artillery missions clarification

[Battlefront.com]

This is an answer to Rollstoy's question in two threads that was ignored because it was way off topic

The manual does discuss how artillery missions are affected by various considerations on the ground and from the player's specified Parameters. However, to clarify this a bit:

In general the Target Type determines the altitude the shells detonate. If you select Infantry they will pretty much explode in the air (air bursts). If you select Armor the rounds will generally explode when they contact something, usually the ground or buildings. If you select General then you'll get a mix of air and ground explosions. AFAIK all US based artillery and mortars have the same capabilities.

Steve

[DaveDash]

In that case - if you want to level a bunch of buildings, I assume its better to use "armour" ?(mind my commonwealth spelling)

I've just been using general, thinking they were some sort of general purpose round.

Cheers

[SgtMuhammed]

Let's stay on topic here Steve. This game sucks and you ran over my dog!

[SgtMuhammed]

I don't think I have seen airbursts in a "General" barrage. I think I saw them in earlier versions but not since 1.04.

[PeterLorre86]

Can you explain the effects of terrain on artillery fire?

Do forests multiply damage as in CM1? Would airbursts in forests be more or less effective then armor?

Also, how much protection do infantry in trenches get from artillery? They seem to melt. Wouldn't a modern trench provide some top cover, if not bunkers? This could be abstracted visually, but right now trenchs dont seem to do much to protect againsts artillery.

[SgtMuhammed]

A trench is still just a ditch. Most trenchlines, if they are at least semi-permanent will have strongpoints and artillery hides to duck into but the trench itself is designed to protect against direct fire.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by SgtMuhammed:

I don't think I have seen airbursts in a "General" barrage. I think I saw them in earlier versions but not since 1.04.

interesting

I don't recall seeing any airbursts (and they are hard to miss) when requesting the general selection for arty?

I did not understand Inf Armour Or general either, until now, but I am not so sure you get some air bursts and some ground explosions from "general". hmmm :confused:

[Thomm]

Thank you, Sir!

Perhaps a better, self-explanatory term would be "mixed", but then again you know military terms better than me.

I will be on the look-out for airbursts in general missions ...

Is DaveDash right? Do I use Armour when I want to flatten buildings???!

Best regards,

Thomm

[aka_tom_w]

I have used General in the past to flatten buildings because I did not know (until now) that General meant a mixture of air burst and ground burst.

the label "Mixed" would be a better choice then "General" I agree.

[Martin Krejcirik]

I think the artillery and air menus are confusing. It's unclear what each option exactly do and it differs for each arty type. Same for air, you don't know if you are going to get a dumb, laser or gps guided bomb and whether your spotter has right equipment.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by Rollstoy:

Thank you, Sir!

Perhaps a better, self-explanatory term would be "mixed", but then again you know military terms better than me.

I will be on the look-out for airbursts in general missions ...

Is DaveDash right? Do I use Armour when I want to flatten buildings???!

Best regards,

Thomm

I do.

[bigmac1281]

I too do not recall seeing airbursts in "general". I always thought general was just impact detonated, infantry was airburst, and armour had shells with better penetration (maybe a timed fuse to explode inside the tank).

This clarification is useful, but to my eyes general and armour seem to do the same thing. I've never seen an airburst in general mode. Something for 1.05 perhaps?

[handihoc]

I've seen some airbursts in 'General', most recently in the Return To Babado scenario. They were possibly in the minority, but there were some, definitely.

[Battlefront.com]

In the real world the FDC (Fire Direction Control) has a lot of say in what actually impacts the target. That's for a lot of different reasons that aren't important to this discussion, but suffice to say that they have charts and tables that give general guidance as to what they should use for a given situation.

When an average grunt calls in for artillery he usually identifies the target type, the terrain, coordinates, and simple calls for how/when the artillery should fall. The FDC actually does the thinking about what it all means. In game terms this means fuzes and shell type mixes (when appropriate). The spotter can call for whatever he can dream up, but the FDC has the final say.

What this means in game terms is that CM has a virtual FDC built into it. So when you select "Personnel" and you target an enemy unit in a building, you don't get airbursts even though the target is Infantry. If you select "Personnel" and the target is in the open, you do get airbursts. So to answer the question about flatting buildings, you can pretty much select whatever you want and the FDC will probably do exactly the same thing each and every time.

The problem with all of this is that artillery and air calls are, in real life, EXTREMELY complex. It was one of the biggest challenges for me, the primary designer, to make quick and easy to use, yet also as powerful as the real deal. Adding additional information to the existing system would be a bad idea, IMHO. Better to have it explained in the manual since these sorts of things don't really need to be shown in the game since they behave pretty much don't vary. Kinda like we don't have UI in the game explaining the differences between a MG, a rifle, and a SAW. It's UI clutter material and that's not a good thing for a game.

Now, having said what I said... it's been a long time since I designed this and Charles got it running. I should have followed my own advice and RTFM Page 81 says that "Personnel" weights things towards airbursts, "Armor" towards special rounds and/or fuze settings. "General" is just regular old ground bursts. I had thought some airbursts would be mixed in with General, but perhaps I was mistaken.

The short of it is that you, the player, don't need to worry about the details of the mission other than getting the parameters entered in as accurately as you can. The FDC makes corrections as needed.

Air Support, however, is a lot trickier because of the wide range of "smart" and "dumb" munitions. Also, the spotter is a lot more important. Again, this information is best presented to the player in the manual, not in the game. Check out the Artillery/Air section of the manual for more info.

Steve

[handihoc]

Quote>>'"General" is just regular old ground bursts. I had thought some airbursts would be mixed in with General, but perhaps I was mistaken.'>>

Steve, now you're making me doubt myself. But I remain reasonably certain that I have seen airbursts from a General setting.

That is if my memory serves.

Or at least, I think it is. If I'm not mistaken.

Maybe.

Possibly, anyway.

Well. . . At least. . . er . . .