akd Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 General Dynamics presentation from 2006 Joint Services Small Arms Systems Annual Symposium: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006smallarms/cavoretto.pdf The Stryker bits: Stryker Remote Weapon Station Phase 1 * Accomplished 4Q04 * XM312, .50cal, integrated onto Kongsberg Block 1 RWS * Successful Integration, Operation, Targeting, & Firing Phase 2 * Accomplished 3Q05 * XM307, 25mm, Integrated onto Kongsberg Block 2 RWS * Successful Integration, Operation, Targeting, Firing, and Air-Bursting of 25mm rounds * Dispersion 70% of XM307 SDD Exit Criteria Phase 3 Integration & Stryker Demonstration * Joint Industry / Government initiative * Integration and testing at RTTC * May 11, 2006 Demonstration of system capability, lethality, and portability -Integrated XM307 / RWS / Stryker System -25mm TP & TP-S rounds a. Static vehicle live fire b. Moving vehicle live fire -.50cal Ball & Tracer rounds a. Static vehicle live fire b. Moving vehicle live fire c. Moving vehicle / moving target live fire * Dismounted firing a. 25mm & .50cal [ August 29, 2006, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: akd ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Interesting. So that is another reason why they killed off the ATK 25mm project. Not only because of the weight and height issues, but because it seems they were already in the process of trying out the XM307. Which makes a LOT of sense. Looks like there are a lot of sensors on this sucker. I assume many of them are for reocording test data. But what are those 8 launchers on the front? Big ass smoke screen? Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Interesting. I've never seen them either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Looks like one of the sensors is GPS (the one on the vehicle's left side, forward). What is more interesting is what appears to be an armored observation box stuck on top of the Squad Leader's hatch. Wouldn't be good to have to check "Yes" in the test sheet's little box next to "Did anybody die while testing this device?" Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Here is the weapon datasheet: http://www.gdatp.com/Products/PDFs/XM307.pdf and same for the co-developed XM312: http://www.gdatp.com/Products/PDFs/XM312.pdf and in other news from GD, reactive armor for the Abrams: General Dynamics Awarded $30 Million to Produce Reactive Armor for Abrams Tanks 08.28.06 CHARLOTTE, N.C. – General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD), has been awarded a $30 million competitive contract from U.S. Army Tank Automotive and Armaments Command (Picatinny, N.J.) for the production of reactive armor tile sets to equip Abrams tanks. Total contract value could reach $59 million if all contract options are exercised. General Dynamics has been a leading producer of reactive armor for the Bradley Fighting Vehicle since 1995, with $417 million in Bradley reactive armor orders to date. Reactive armor that currently equips the U.S. Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle is already saving lives and preventing crippling damage to combat vehicles in Iraq. The system is made up of tiles that fasten to the exterior of the vehicles. Equipped with the General Dynamics’ reactive armor, combat vehicles are better able to withstand a direct hit from a variety of anti-armor munitions, including the shoulder-fired rocket propelled grenades that are prevalent in many of today’s regional conflicts. The production program will be directed from the General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products’ Burlington Technology Center, Burlington, Vt., with U.S. tile production occurring at the company’s reactive armor facility in Stone County Operations, McHenry, Miss. Work will be completed by August 2009. General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, Inc., located in Charlotte, N.C., provides a broad range of system solutions for military and commercial applications. The company designs, develops and produces high-performance armament systems; a full range of advanced composite-based products; biological and chemical detection systems; and mobile shelter systems. More information about General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products can be found on the World Wide Web at www.gdatp.com. General Dynamics, headquartered in Falls Church, Va., employs approximately 81,900 people worldwide and had 2005 revenue of $21.2 billion. The company is a market leader in mission-critical information systems and technologies; land and expeditionary combat systems, armaments and munitions; shipbuilding and marine systems; and business aviation. More information about the company is available online at www.generaldynamics.com. R06-09 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: But what are those 8 launchers on the front?Look almost like torpedo tubes, don't they? I found myself wondering about TOW launchers... I guess they are sensors of some kind. That whole Stryker setup is looking weirder and weirder in an SF kind of way. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 KISS (Keep it Simple Soldier!) are they smoke dischargers? or is that just too simple? dunno? [ August 30, 2006, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: KISS are they smoke dischargers? or is that just too simple? dunno? I thought that too, but there are still 16 dischargers on the remote mount. I'm wondering if its maybe a laser detection system or some kind of riot control device? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 If they were sensors they would be behind the slats where they wouldn't be in danger of bumping into stuff. They are also arranged to cover the vehicle's front 180 degrees or so. That has weapon written all over it Whether they are defensive, like smoke, offensive like riot control, I dunno. Those are some pretty big tubes and the insert (which could be a mockup dummy) certainly doesn't look high tech. Interesting! AKD, thanks for the note about reactive armor. It's been in the works for years. I wonder if this will be a part of TUSK or if this will be something entirely different. I don't see this upgrade as being relevant to CM:SF. Actually, I really don't see it as relevant to real life either RPG-29s and AT-14s pretty much render reactive armor ineffective from what I can tell. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Looks like 40mm grenades... Maybe close in self defense? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Yeah, but check the size of those things! They look like they could be 80mm. That's a LOT of punch for an unaimed area weapon. That's why I favor smoke of some sort. I know they have the dischargers still attached to the RWS, but these things look like they can put out a LOT more smoke. The RWS smoke launchers are simply to protect the vehicle, the ones in front could be to obscure infantry disembarking/embarking. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 XM307 airburst ammo is gonna chew through enemy dismounts! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Yeah, but check the size of those things! They look like they could be 80mm. That's a LOT of punch for an unaimed area weapon. That's why I favor smoke of some sort. I know they have the dischargers still attached to the RWS, but these things look like they can put out a LOT more smoke. The RWS smoke launchers are simply to protect the vehicle, the ones in front could be to obscure infantry disembarking/embarking.I suppose they could dump a lot of tear gas cannisters over a pretty wide area... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 What if they're bumpers? I know its not the best angle, but I don't see any wires coming out of them. They're located in places on the cage that are more likely to bump into things when turning in an urban environment. The little blue-black things stuck in the tubes could easily be some form of rubber or soft impact plastic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I can't imagine that gun firing high-power Bradley 25mm Chain Gun rounds - one shot would probably overturn the ground mount! From the narrow looking ammo box in the picture this 25mm gun should maybe considered a mini-grenade launcher than a true automatic cannon? The Pentagon takes the idea of introducing new ammo types into the supply chain very seriously. I wonder what the advantage is of this round that the current .50 cal and 40mm launchers can't perform currently - GASP! ...Unless they're planning to phase out the 40mm grenade launcher for the new 25mm! :eek: :eek: In one of the quote above is the line "25mm TP & TP-S rounds". Any professional out there want to hazard a guess what 'TP' may stand for? [ August 30, 2006, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by MikeyD: I can't imagine that gun firing high-power Bradley 25mm Chain Gun rounds - one shot would probably overturn the ground mount! From the narrow looking ammo box in the picture this 25mm gun should maybe considered a mini-grenade launcher than a true automatic cannon? The Pentagon takes the idea of introducing new ammo types into the supply chain very seriously. I wonder what the advantage is of this round that the current .50 cal and 40mm launchers can't perform currently - GASP! ...Unless they're planning to phase out the 40mm grenade launcher for the new 25mm! :eek: :eek: In one of the quote above is the line "25mm TP & TP-S rounds". Any professional out there want to hazard a guess what 'TP' may stand for? It is a grenade launcher: 25mm Airbursting Weapon System General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products is currently developing the XM307, a lightweight, portable grenade machine gun that utilizes 25mm airbursting ammunition. This next-generation replacement for current heavy and grenade machine guns efficiently manages recoil and is highly portable in small soldier units. The system can be quickly and easily converted to a 12.7mm machine gun. GDATP is the prime contractor with total system integration. TP and TP-S are training rounds, I assume. see datasheets above 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Mikey, The thinking here is to eliminate the current M2 and Mk19 weapons and go with a single system that can be effectively either a HMG or a grenade launcher. The conversion can be done within a few minutes without tools IIRC. In theory the Stryker could carry the swap parts inside and within minutes covert to the opposite of what it went into battle with. This gives an extra degree of tactical flexibility that currently does not exist. If a Stryker goes in mounting a M2, that's what it's got for the battle, period. The airburst capability and extra ammo (a presumption) that the 25mm design affords is also a big plus. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 If that 25mm weapon is anything like the 20mm they were gonna use on the OICW it should be pretty cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: If that 25mm weapon is anything like the 20mm they were gonna use on the OICW it should be pretty cool. The OICW offshoot XM25 will share ammo commonality, I believe. The 25mm airburst weapon system is a next-generation, semi-automatic weapon system designed for effectiveness against enemies protected by walls, dug into foxholes, or hidden in hard-to-reach places. The 25mm airburst weapon system provides the soldier with a 300 to 500% increase in hit probability to defeat point, area, and defilade targets out to 500 meters. The weapon features revolutionary high-explosive, airburst ammunition programmed by the weapon's target acquisition/fire control system. The 25mm airburst weapon system integrates ballistics computation in the full-solution Target Acquisition/Fire Control (TA/FC) system. The soldier places the aim point on target and activates the laser rangefinder. The fire control system provides an adjusted aim point. The soldier places the adjusted aim point on target and pulls the trigger. Target information is communicated to the chambered 25mm round. As the round speeds down range, it measures the distance traveled and bursts precisely at the distance preprogrammed. The 25mm airburst weapon system precisely delivers airbursting munitions in all conditions, including MOUT and complex terrain. It is five times more lethal at the M203 maximum range and continues to provide lethality well beyond the M203's maximum ability. The system is designed for optimum performance at 300 meters but will perform to 500 meters and beyond. It includes five different types of ammunition: Thermobaric Flechette Training High Explosive Airbursting Non-Lethal http://www.atk.com/AdvancedWeaponSystems/advanceweaponsystems_xm25.asp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I have a google vid from a game that modelled the OICW that showed what it was capable of better than any marketing brochure I ever saw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: What if they're bumpers? Off topic digression alert. Several years ago I had the chance to go aboard the USS Estocin, FFG-15, it was part of a Navy PR tour in the Great Lakes. (BTW - she's now part of the Turkish Navy and the TCG Göksu). Along the side of the helo shed were a bunch of bumpers / fenders stowed there and all the people on the tour were looking at them very strangely as they had no idea what they were. The folks were whispering back and forth kind of wondering what they were. Radar decoys, ammo of some sort? ...er, maybe SOMEONE LEFT SECRET WEAPONS OUTSIDE? I said no, I think they're just spare fenders. Some lady asked the Sailor giving the tour what they were. "Fenders 'Mam, just Fenders" Still seems funny to me, but maybe you had to be there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagwyn Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Steve: Great to see you working on games instead of listening to your vapid, anti-American opinions. Tag 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pad152 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: If that 25mm weapon is anything like the 20mm they were gonna use on the OICW it should be pretty cool. Never take a weapon into battle that requires a battery! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Tagwyn, Steve: Great to see you working on games instead of listening to your vapid, anti-American opinions. Taghuh? Oh... you mean that having your own opinion is anti-American? Thank you for a Fascist moment, Mr. Tag. Not remembering you from a hole in the wall, I took a look at your last 20 posts or so. It's clear that you are a Troll and nothing but a Troll. Funny thing is, you're not even a very good one. Good Trolls, I mean the ones that really get under people's skin, are brought to my attention. You're such a pathetic excuse for a Troll that nobody bothered. Buh-bye... Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by Tagwyn: Steve: Great to see you working on games instead of listening to your vapid, anti-American opinions. Tag 'Tis a red card! This forum does not cease to amaze me. Common decency is anything but common. :eek: Edit: Spelling devil. [ August 30, 2006, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: WineCape ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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