WEGO vs REAL TIME: Pre-release poll

[massive1974]

well,

i admit i gave the wrong example. AT gun placement definitely needs some thinking.

BUT

time-pressure in the wego system i think is somewhat corrupted by the endless thinking time you have between turns. the fact that those 60 minutes unfold the way they do without you being able to do anything about it helps realism a bit but still. it is too fragmented.

I'd say, WEGO gives you the real god's eye perspective because you can go over every tiny detail on the field and make adjustements. in RT things happen at the same time which will necessarily increase fog of war because you just cant be everywhere. so less micromanagement and more general orders and then improvisation when the brownie hits the wind.

[massive1974]

Originally posted by Moon

"The ability to think and re-think perhaps helps offset the fact that you as the player have to think for dozens and sometimes hundreds of individuals."

But then for me this is solved by the fact (or will be, I still have to see what the AI does in RT) that the Ai takes care of its own to a certain extent, right? I have a general plan, I adjust but I'd rather not ponder over every single grunt and his moves. I sort of like the idea of having that endless freedom being taken away. I like the idea of limitations that come with RT. It might be my Russian style of command.

[Swift]

RT is not more real then WEGO. You would not find yourself in absolute command over every unit as you are in a game. If you aim for realism you could play WEGO and give yourself a fixed time to give orders to each unit (or a fixed time for all orders depending on the number of units you have).

In RTS games I find that I can outplay any computer AI on a small scale but since the AI can manage all units at the same time there is always some areas that the AI beats my (stupid) units.

A WEGO system gives you the ability to control all units with the same detail and you don't end up selecting all units and just tell them to charge forward.

What I really would like to see is a game that puts you in the position of the top commander that has limited view of the battle (like radio communications) and the ability to give out orders to subcommanders but not directly to units. However I think that such a game might be less fun to play then CM (as I am sure that it would take place in a tent or some tight vehicle with a map and a radio)

[rlg85]

Given that I enjoy PBEM games against human opponents, and RT is a little difficult via email.. Im going to have to go with WEGO.

Not that I wont look to try out the new realtime, and may even like it.

[Barrabas]

I never fell for the CM-series, so I have little experience with the WEG0 system. After playing TOW for a while, I have learned to like the sloooow real-time action with a lot of pause.

So, I would say Real time. But I will definitely try out WEGO too.

[BFCElvis]

I saw a couple of PBEM RT and WEGO TCP posts I think. PBEM is WEGO only and TCP is RT only.

It will be interesting to revisit this topic a month from now.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Elvis:

I saw a couple of PBEM RT and WEGO TCP posts I think. PBEM is WEGO only and TCP is RT only.

Are you sure, I hadn’t noticed / checked?

I thought - perhaps incorrectly, that TCP/IP supported both WEGO and RT?

[Becket]

Another interesting question is this: will you multiplay in TCP/IP or PBEM?

IMO the CM games were forced into PBEM because the idea of trying to play a turn based game in TCP/IP is so very, very horrible. Real time removes the element where you have to just sit and wait for the other guy to move, making direct connect more attractive.

I wonder whether we'll see PBEM games more as a way to manage games for folks (like me) who have difficult schedules?

At any rate, to me one thing is clear: throw out everything from CMx1. You can't go home again.

[Hukka]

Originally posted by Becket:

IMO the CM games were forced into PBEM because the idea of trying to play a turn based game in TCP/IP is so very, very horrible. Real time removes the element where you have to just sit and wait for the other guy to move, making direct connect more attractive.

I can't believe what I am seeing. CMx1 games were awesome in direct TCP/IP connection. What was great in WEGO is that you both planned the turn at the same time, so there was quite little time to wait if either of the player was faster with his turn.

I'm quite surprised that the Battlefront decided to focus mainly on the real-time system as I thought one of the greatest things in CMx1's was the WEGO-system. But I have full faith on the guys still as they are the ones who created the piece of art called Combat Mission.

BTW, CM:SF was the first game I've ever pre-ordered. That shows something of the respect and trust I have on these guys.

[BFCElvis]

100% sure Mark. When "2 player TCP/LAN" is selected there are no other options for type of play.

Becket, I LOVE TCP CM. Always have. But if it is time issue an entire CM:SF TCP game can be done in 15-20 minutes if it's set up that way or someone gets spanked too quickly. Even single player battles that are set up as 45 minute matches end after half thattime sometimes.

[Becket]

Elvis, I may disagree on playing CMx1 via TCP, but from everything I've read, I suspect I will agree with you on the ease of playing CMx2 via TCP.

Looks like I wrote my post poorly (yeah, big suprise there ). I was trying to say that I wouldn't be surprised if TCP replaces PBEM as the more popular way to play the game.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Elvis:

100% sure Mark. When "2 player TCP/LAN" is selected there are no other options for type of play.

Bugger!

[Lio]

Originally posted by Swift:

What I really would like to see is a game that puts you in the position of the top commander that has limited view of the battle (like radio communications) and the ability to give out orders to subcommanders but not directly to units. However I think that such a game might be less fun to play then CM (as I am sure that it would take place in a tent or some tight vehicle with a map and a radio)

You might want to give COTA a look then.

It dont have fancy graphics but it simulates command pretty well i guess.

[Sixxkiller]

I dont think PBEM will be replaced by RT. It will however give you a better gaming experience with both in.

I mainly started this thread to see how many change over a month or two from now.

But I think most of you who speak about RT have CMSF confused with Starcraft. Do a Zerg rush in this and you wont like the results. Unload your troops to cut down wood they will get cut down alright. Try to build a farm with the Eng platoon and you will be buying that farm. But you can get out of a Stryker and lay in a wheat field in the hot Syrian sun if you like.

But some of you will find that in Real time sometimes you can correct your mistakes in planning. In Wego, you are stuck with 60 seconds of mistakes.

[massive1974]

Thats what I'M saying!!! pace wont be affected in RT because you just cant throw a human wave. it'll be thinking long all over again, only in realtime. and with the syrians up under your ass.

[Lee]

WeGo, either by e-mail or direct internet connection exclusively, no real-time, except perhaps for very small battles. It's the only method (along with hotseat head-to-head play) of multi-player that allows the degree of control required for larger battles.

I play first-person shooter games (like Quake IV, Battlefield 2, etc.) all the time, but being in a complex tactical wargame environment is not the time to be rushed when issuing commands.