Can we have some burgers in CMx2?

[Snow Leopard]

Confused? I mean Brandenburgers!

It is WWII German's Special Force. Can it be mod into be play in CMx2?

Cheer

Snowleopard

[PseudoSimonds]

No.

[Barrold]

Yes, billions will be served.

BFS5

[Abbott]

Maybe when they release the "Combat Mission Special Fock Ups" module but not before. Until then I suggest you go with the soup and ham sandwich.

[Michael Dorosh]

Generally speaking, when commando units get into 30 minute firefights with enemy soldiers, something has gone spectacularly wrong somewhere.

The Brandengburg commandos used misinformation to get them to their targets, not necessarily brute force. Why do you think they would make a particularly interesting or appropriate subject for CM?

[J Ruddy]

I think it 'could' fit...

25 minutes of getting into position

2 minutes of commando raid

3 minutes to wait for the smoke to clear?

[juan_gigante]

Who says that it'll be WWII? I don't think that the Space Lobsters of Doom had (will have?) Brandenburgers.

[Snow Leopard]

It should have plenty action like capture or blown bridge up. create map that don't have friendly side just enter and exit as only victory is meet their objective even don't have to count kills as victory. Maybe create program that can use knife to kill sentry without draw attention and even kidnap high offical. It should be fun if try sneak around without get attention from enemy or catch them with their pants down.

One top interesting about them apart from SS elite commando force is you don't have to be Aryan when recuit into Brandenburgers. recuiters will prefer anyone who can speak enemy's language and their looks like Slav and or other ethnic groups with custom behivor. Image commando with Nordic feature looks will stuck out in emeny like sore thumb. I bet some of people want be in elite force but turn away because of their wrong look but happy accept into Brandenburgers and earn respect from SS waffen that they can arcoss bridge safey capture by Brandenburgers.

http://www.thirdreich.net/Brandenberg_Commandos.html

Regards

Snowleopard

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Snow Leopard:

It should have plenty action like capture or blown bridge up. create map that don't have friendly side just enter and exit as only victory is meet their objective even don't have to count kills as victory. Maybe create program that can use knife to kill sentry without draw attention and even kidnap high offical. It should be fun if try sneak around without get attention from enemy or catch them with their pants down.

One top interesting about them apart from SS elite commando force is you don't have to be Aryan when recuit into Brandenburgers. recuiters will prefer anyone who can speak enemy's language and their looks like Slav and or other ethnic groups with custom behivor. Image commando with Nordic feature looks will stuck out in emeny like sore thumb. I bet some of people want be in elite force but turn away because of their wrong look but happy accept into Brandenburgers and earn respect from SS waffen that they can arcoss bridge safey capture by Brandenburgers.

http://www.thirdreich.net/Brandenberg_Commandos.html

Regards

Snowleopard

I have a copy of the history of the Brandenburgers by Helmuth Spaeter; the Brandenburg was turned into a defacto panzergrenadier division in 1945 or so and incorporated into the Großdeutschland verbände. I think they were short on commando objectives by then.

I still don't see that a commando raid would offer much to an opposing human player in CMX2; nor even give much for anyone to do against the AI, as from what little I've read, they used enemy uniforms and guile to achieve their objectives. Slicing one man's throat doesn't sound like anything appropriate to a company level game; might make for an interesting FPS though.

CMX2 will be optimized for company sized forces; the derring do of the Brandenburgers are interesting and exciting, but not at the scale that CM will be.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Snow Leopard:

Confused? I mean Brandenburgers!

It is WWII German's Special Force. Can it be mod into be play in CMx2?

I hope we get Royal Marine Commandos first.

All the best,

John.

[Kurtz]

Originally posted by Snow Leopard:

...you don't have to be Aryan when recuit into Brandenburgers. recuiters will prefer anyone...

From the way you phrase it, it sounds like they're still active and recruiting! :eek:

[vincere]

From the way you phrase it, it sounds like they're still active and recruiting!

When I was serving in Germany there was a local scandal because a German Para Battalion celebrated Crete battle honours. :eek:

It will be interesting if the devs include special forces in a potential modern or near future hypothetical game. I've read from several sources that doctrine is moving towards empoying special forces in support roles during conventional battles. Balance would be key. I could see the potential complaining posts of "my superman SAS/Delta squad were routed by a two companies- this sucks because I'm a re-enactor and my blurring of the egde of time gives me unique insights into such things."

[ September 23, 2005, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: vincere ]

[Zalgiris 1410]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I have a copy of the history of the Brandenburgers by Helmuth Spaeter; the Brandenburg was turned into a defacto panzergrenadier division in 1945 or so and incorporated into the Großdeutschland verbände.

From what little I've read, they used enemy uniforms and guile to achieve their objectives.

CMX2 will be optimized for company sized forces; the daring of the Brandenburgers are interesting and exciting, but not at the scale that CM will be.

I agree with you Michael Dorosh, the kind of commando style raids by the Brandenburgers would not at all be appropriate for CMx2, because simulating those would be more for a shoot'em up / spy killer game AIUI.

That said Micheal Dorosh I'm only slighly aware of that book on the Brandenburgers or something like it and I've a couple of questions for you if you are able to look into it a bit. When exactly were the Brandenburgers formed into a Rgmt / Brgd and started to operate as a conventional line unit with or independently beforehand of the Grossdeutschland Pz or PzG Division or the Korps? Had they already converted to the normal Wehrmacht uniforms as such in this non-specialised role or did they still ware their own distinct type of uniforms?

[ September 24, 2005, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Zalgiris 1410:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I have a copy of the history of the Brandenburgers by Helmuth Spaeter; the Brandenburg was turned into a defacto panzergrenadier division in 1945 or so and incorporated into the Großdeutschland verbände.

From what little I've read, they used enemy uniforms and guile to achieve their objectives.

CMX2 will be optimized for company sized forces; the daring of the Brandenburgers are interesting and exciting, but not at the scale that CM will be.

I agree with you Michael Dorosh, the kind of commando style raids by the Brandenburgers would not at all be appropriate for CMx2, because simulating those would be more for a shoot'em up / spy killer game AIUI.

That said Micheal Dorosh I'm only slighly aware of that book on the Brandenburgers or something like it and I've a couple of questions for you if you are able to look into it a bit. When exactly were the Brandenburgers formed into a Rgmt / Brgd and started to operate as a conventional line unit with or independently beforehand of the Grossdeutschland Pz or PzG Division or the Korps? Had they already converted to the normal Wehrmacht uniforms as such in this non-specialised role or did they still ware their own distinct type of uniforms? </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Ok, according to Spaeter, lineage is as follows

15 October 1939 - establishment as 1. Bau-Lehr Kompanie "Deutsche Kompanie" z.b.V.

(z.b.v. is IIRC the standard German abbreviation for 'zur besondere verwendung', meaning "for special purposes", could apply to a supernumary officer (as we say in the Commonwealth) or indeed, to an entire subunit or unit)

The entire name's title translates as 1st Construction Instruction Company (German Company) for Special Missions

Lehr can also be translated as "demonstration", as Panzer Lehr is often translated that way.

I digress.

A second company was formed, to create Bau-Lehr-Battaillon z.b.V 800, with the companies named

1. Bau-Lehr-Kompania z.b.V. 800

2. Bau-Lehr-Kompania z.b.V. 800

By March 1940 there were four companies of this unit

May 1940 additional companies created and a II battalion created; a III battalion created from about July 1940

October 1940, Lehr-Regiment Brandenburg z.b.V 800 designated, bringing the 3 battalions under command.

In late 1942 and into January 1943, extensive reorganization

Sonderverband 800 created for Brandenburg home headqurters

Sonderverband 801, from the former I Bataillon, to become 1. Regiment Brandenburg

802, from II Bataillon, to become 2. Regiment BR

803, from III, to 3 BR

804, from IV, to 4 BR

805 - for 5. Rgt. BR

1 April 1943, Sonderverband 800 renamed Division Brandenburg z.b.V. 800, with 4 Regiments under command

Reorg was slow as many units were far flung and on operations.

13 September 1944 - reorganized as Panzergrenadier Division Brandenburg, and joined the Großdeutschland verbande and Panzerkorps Großdeutschland, with a Panzer regiment added and reorganizations and redesignations of the BR regiments (most notably use of the title Jäger)

The first 100 pages or so of Volume III of Spaeter are devoted to their history and there is quite a bit of detail and some interesting vignettes of battles fought. The history goes to Jan 1945, and then there are additional chapters on the Division in the last calendar year of the war, spread throughout the text. Worth the money for an overview of the BR.

Fedorowicz also has other titles on the Brandenburgers but I have not seen them.

No details at all of uniform in the book.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I think they started to wear standard DAK uniforms in 1968 when George Peppard and Rock Hudson led them into Tobruk.

Were you refering to the film 'Sahara', IIRC it has recently been on the cable Channel TCM (Downunder) and constitutes only the second movie that I've actually watched on that bloody fricking black & white station this year.

Thanks for the info Micheal Dorosh, apart from perhaps also finding anything further about their uniforms, the main question that I am left with is regarding when the Brandenburgers started to operate as conventional forces exactly, say fight as regular line units in battle.

BTW it now seems like I ought to take a good look into the history of the Brandenburgers from what you've outlined, thanks for that run down again Micheal Dorosh.

Regards,

Saul.

[Michael Dorosh]

Actually, the movie was cleverly named "Tobruk". It's listed on imdb.com

Good luck!