Let's Have The M4 Argument Again!

[juan_gigante]

Soldiers Want A Bigger Bang

Nearly 80 percent of Soldiers said in a recent survey they are satisfied with their weapons, though almost half recommended a replacement for the standard-issued M9 pistol or ammunition with more stopping power.

Additionally, nearly 30 percent of Soldiers in the December 2006 survey, conducted on behalf of the Army by the Center for Naval Analyses, said the M4 carbine should be replaced or more deadly ammunition fielded.

"Across weapons, Soldiers have requested weapons and ammunition with more stopping power/lethality," the report said.

...

The survey lends weight to Army claims that current-issued weapons are effective despite growing criticism from Soldiers and lawmakers on Capitol Hill that the service should re-assess the standard M4 - as well as the M9 pistol.

In April, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) sent a letter to acting Army secretary Pete Geren taking issue with the service's sole-source contract to buy about 500,000 M4 carbines despite evidence that new rifle technologies could provide more reliable weapons.

...

The CNA surveyors also asked Soldiers for their opinions on possible improvements to their small arms. The top request from Soldiers was for more knock-down power, reigniting the debate over America's small arms caliber choices.

"When speaking to experts and Soldiers on site, many commented on the limited ability to effectively stop targets, saying that those personnel targets who were shot multiple times were still able to continue pursuit," the report said.

A full 20 percent of M9 users said they wanted a new weapon, and "some were more specific and requested a return to the Colt .45 for standard issue pistols," including others who asked for hollow-point ammo.

Considering some of the recent discussion in Congress on whether or not to have a competion between the M4 and other military carbines (basically the HK 416), this survey seems quite relevant.

Has anyone's mind changed on this issue lately? Should we start replacing M4s with HK416s? Thoughts?

[Sixxkiller]

No adopting the 416 is just a small upgrade on an already %^$'d up POS. And the 5.56 round goes through Haji just fine anyway.

But what do people expect to hear from young men? Do you expect them to say, "No please C&C Bush, please give us BB guns, we want less power!!!" If they asked me I would certainly say i want more powerful weaponry, like a Plasma Rifle! And the minute young men dont say they want more powerful weapons, thats a day to be worried about.

[Apocalypse 31]

Thats why I have an M14 in my Stryker. Huuah

[NoxSpartana]

Just curious but are non-SF troops allowed to use whatever kind of weaponry they want (within reason) if they provide it themselves?

[ChrisND]

M14 = Best weapon ever. period.

(Although I did have a soft spot for my M4 with an M68 sight, I love those damned things.)

Nox: Not in my unit it wasn't (82nd), and we were pretty lenient as far convential troops go for gear. Getting caught with a non-issued weapon meant a field grade court martial.

[Flanker15]

Well for a start they won't be getting their hollow point ammo as it's a breach of the Geneva convention . There has been a trend for countries to move away from the 7.62 to 5.56, they could just pick up an AKM if they wanted more power.

[Nemesis Lead]

The US is being really silly here. The 5.56mm round relies on high velocity to cause spalling to kill.

When you cut the barrel length from 20 inches to 16 or 14 inches, you sacrifice about 20-25% of your velocity. The carbine is more handy in close quarters than a rifle, but it is now a far less potent weapon.

But replace them with M14s? Bad idea. Ask the grunts if they want an M16 with 400 rounds or an M14 with 200 rounds (these combos weight the same). They will chose the former, not the latter.

The best solution is to go back to a 5.56mm rifle with a 20 inch barrel. This is what the Marines use and they don't have the same complaints.

Unless, of course, we can get those plasma rifles!

[SgtMuhammed]

Grunts are funny. Every other weapon is better than yours but as soon as you get a new one, even one that you have been crying for, it sucks. I prefered the accuracy of the M16 and the compactness of the M4. I would have been happy if they would have given the M16 a collapsable stock like the M4 but kept the barrel.

Still the M4 was easier to carry and had that whole commando cool factor going for it. Plus my M16 was about a million years old whereas I was the first owner of my M4.

[Wisbech_lad]

Bah, should have chosen the FN/Enfield .280 back in 1950... Or even the .256

[DASman]

M4,

two to the body,

one to the head,

never fear,

they are dead.

E

[C'Rogers]

Every other weapon is better than yours but as soon as you get a new one

Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

[Axel]

Why don't they buy Rk62-95's instead? A powerful and reliable weapon.