Generic unit textures and unknown units in CMX2.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

In CMX1 there is a stage when enemy units approach that they show up as generic, unknown units. The AFVs are modelled to look like no specific unit but are generalised, box like units. This is a shame.

I always view the first play through of each turn with all graphics settings at their most realistic, scale realistic and all player aids turned off. Even in CMX1 the graphics are so good that the immersive affect it great. Like watching a version of Band of Brothers in which one can affect the outcome and issue orders… tremendous… just what wargames are all about . However… when a generic, box like enemy unit shows up the magic spell is broken and I find myself back in the real world .

The request is that generic units be dropped from CMX2. Unknown enemy units showing up as the “best” guess enemy units but when selected having a “?” mark over them to indicate their unknown status. I would like to see the generic phase of identifying enemy units dropped.

It is a shame to go to all that trouble to achieve as realistic and immersive graphics as possible only to be shocked back into the real world by obviously unrealistic generic units. Even in CMX1 the graphics deserve better than generic units, this will be even more the case with the improved CMX2 graphics. (But I do understand why generic units are used but the cost to the overall look of the game is too great…. in my very prejudiced view .)

Hugely looking forward to CMSF,

All the best,

Kip.

[MikeyD]

In CMx1 'Extreme FOW' most of what you see turns out to have been a 'best guess' all along! Its frustrating when you work on mods. Only the 'genric' PzIII H is ever ID'd during the battle, then after the game's done you see G and J models scattered around the field :mad:

The problem with trying to keep from being reminded you're in a game is how do you graphically represent a hunch? I'd vote for having suspended text with arrows or triangles saying "unidentified vehicle" or 'movement spotted" without any graphical representation. But then the horizon might soon get cluttered with suspended text lines - so much for lifelike immersion! Depending on what the engine is capable of I suppose a true 'ghosted' see-thru vehicle model could be used.

One reason why we may not see a significant change over CMx1 (besides a better looking generic tank) is that the extra effort taken to significantly alter how 'generic' designations work might not be worth the incremental improvement in gameplay. If they haven't already altered it in the initial coding would they take the time now to rework the concept at this stage?

Another one of those things we'll just have to wait for screenshots to see what they came up with.

[Sergei]

With modern graphic cards, it shouldn't be impossible to give some kind of blurriness effect to unidentified units. But I've never had a problem with generic unit icons. Interface above immersion.

[Cpl Steiner]

kipanderson,

I agree that the generic "blocky" vehicles do tend to spoil the immersion factor a lot. However, they do let you know immediately and graphically that what you are looking at is actually a "sound" contact, rather than a visual contact. As soon as visual contact is made they are replaced by the proper vehicle graphic, which itself can be incorrect if the vehicle is visually misidentified ("?" added to the unit's name/type can mean it isn't what it seems).

Originally posted by Kipanderson:

The request is that generic units be dropped from CMX2. Unknown enemy units showing up as the “best” guess enemy units but when selected having a “?” mark over them to indicate their unknown status. I would like to see the generic phase of identifying enemy units dropped.

The suggestion you make would require the user to select each enemy vehicle to see which was a visual sighting and which was just a sound contact. I don't think that would work in the heat of battle.

Infantry sound contacts are even more of a headache, as in CMx1 they are shown as one soldier model instead of three. With 1:1 representation of infantry I imagine some other solution will have to be used here.

One possible solution would be to not show anything, and have a point sound source at that location instead. If you move the camera near to the point, the sound of armour or infantry or whatever gets louder, and if you move it away, it gets quieter. This is perfectly feasible as I have seen it done in other games (Operation Flashpoint for example allowed you to place barking dog and cricket sounds etc. at specific points on the map when making a scenario).

However, I suspect the loss of information the user would suffer from would make this impractical from a game-play point of view.

Alternatively, perhaps a proper tank or soldier model could be used but made to look transparent (say 50% opacity) so that it was kind of like a ghost image.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Hopefully the GIs in CMSF won't mistake pickup trucks for Tigers.

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by Sergei:

With modern graphic cards, it shouldn't be impossible to give some kind of blurriness effect to unidentified units. But I've never had a problem with generic unit icons. Interface above immersion.

I was posting my own reply and missed yours.

Yes, I think "Full Spectrum Warrior" used a similar idea. If you didn't have "situational awareness" in a particular direction, the whole 3D map image went all blurry. Quite a neat trick for representing what was out of sight of your men. A similar technique could be used to make the tank/infantry sound contacts blurry and out of focus.

[mav1]

Maybe the best option would be to give a choice for the player. One option would be to have the generic unknown option, that already exist's, for players who are not so fussy about realism. The other option would be just a sound, that goes louder as you approach it { just as Cpl Steiner mentioned }, this would be for players who like realism. The sound option would be great for players who dont mind searching the map, like myself. The best games are one's that give as much options to gamers as possible.