ClaytoniousRex Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Here's how the tac is looking after some much needed loving. Other improvements include much cleaned up selection and orders menu (for example, you no longer have to use hotkeys to issue orders to multiple selected units - the right click works properly with group selections, "Hold ALL drops" and "Allow ALL drops" buttons for the entire team, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick06 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Ohhh MY GOSH THATS AMAZING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Cool! Really - can't wait to use this. Now I just need an explanation what the symbols mean. Who can draw on the map? Everyone or just the commander? I don't want to sound unapreciative so forgive me the question: do the bots know what the symbols mean? Would the no drop sign stop them from dropping there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caseck Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I suspect they do... Holy catfish these guys work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilibird Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Awesome work This is just great news. The grid will make things much easier to coordinate, instead of typing "sw" "ne" "s" in the chat box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 [ October 21, 2006, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Hub ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboyle Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Originally posted by Hub: I don't get to play much, but when I have been playing, I don't see many (if any) using voice coms. There was a small discussion a while back about encouraging more players to use vox. Has this gone by the boards? Using STANAG symbology, grids, waypoints, etc. is a good thing, but wouldn't voice be the most helpful of all? Is it due to technical problems, or maybe people just aren't comfortable talking while playing? I hate trying to keyboard messages while playing... It drives my chica nuts when she's watching tv and I suddenly blurt out "Ridge, sou'west! Nail him!" from the area of the computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilibird Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 hahaha I was using it for a bit with Posel last night. The thing is, it usually came through garbled/distored, to the point that we couldn't understand each other. It became more effective just to use chat. It might've been our mics/connection, but we aren't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil180 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Originally posted by ClaytoniousRex: Here's how the tac is looking after some much needed loving. [...]That looks really nice. Any chance of having contours as an option on the tac display? Cheers, Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander SquidLord Williams Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Looks good to me, so long as we get a brief intro to various symbols, which'll work a lot better to discuss as a communicative channel. One thing jumps out at me, though: the grid needs to be a more contrastive colour. Since its thin and scales differently per map, in theory, it needs to be fast and easy to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander SquidLord Williams Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Originally posted by Hub: I don't get to play much, but when I have been playing, I don't see many (if any) using voice coms. There was a small discussion a while back about encouraging more players to use vox. Has this gone by the boards? Using STANAG symbology, grids, waypoints, etc. is a good thing, but wouldn't voice be the most helpful of all? Is it due to technical problems, or maybe people just aren't comfortable talking while playing? I hate trying to keyboard messages while playing... Actually, my feeling is voice is actually less useful than a useful set of visual symbols, especially for fast communication of things like direction and intent. That's not to say "Attack from the southwest, three heavy vehicles, moving slow" is unhelpful, but its also ephermal, there's no record of its passing. Useful for the immediate, but less useful for conveying plans and intent, as well as theoretical observations ("They're dropping behind that ridge"). Much like playing Steel Beasts without the initial "let's get some graphics on the map" bit when playing multiplayer, it's still playable (as we've long proven), but its not as coordinated or as effective. Would an increase in voice comm help? Probably, but technical limitations (and sometimes social ones) preclude everyone from using it as much as they might like. Net gain, methinks, in the final analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabot3 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I think that the graphics have great potential if the players who are in game at the time wish to use them. It still comes down to that desire to be organized rather than to simply roll around and shoot. The various line symbols indicating a variety of tactical movement may be a bit much. Even in actual military staff work they tend to be surplus. Give me the ability to throw some goose eggs, some curved or straight lines and crosses for target reference points on the map and I've got all the tools that I need. As for voice comms, if used properly they can make all the difference in the world in my opinion. They put a person with a personality at the other end of the line. My only problem with voice comms (TeamSpeak and Ventrillo) as I have experienced them being used in other online games such as WWII Online and Eve is that it takes a bit of personal discipline to use them effectively. If everyone on your team tries to speak at once or you have someone or some people who have the constant desire to talk, then you may as well be typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aittam Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 great improvement; voice commo it's been a little tricky on mac, always used to give out warnings pronto but I'd rather chat more complex things and now that we can draw them even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglist Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 The tac map changes are very exciting. The longer I've been playing the more time I seem to spend wrangling bots; this should help a lot in this regard. At times trying to get the bots to work according to a plan can feel like your the tour manager for the Sex Pistols. Maybe now it will be more like conducting a well tuned orchestra....just a little bit maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander SquidLord Williams Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Originally posted by Junglist: At times trying to get the bots to work according to a plan can feel like your the tour manager for the Sex Pistols. Maybe now it will be more like conducting a well tuned orchestra....just a little bit maybe? The only issue being I'm not sure if the bots yet understand the symbolic language as communicated on the tac. That's a hard AI problem, traditionally, and while my respect for Grappler is immense, I'm not sure if he's quite at that point. He might very well surprise me, though. Its possible. But I don't judge it likely. Still, even if the bots don't speak the language, it'll make the bot wrangler's job easier to stay on task and area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Grunt Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 New tacmap looks great. Can the gridlines be black instead of green (hard to see, especially over green terrain) and add the letters along the bottom as well? Symbology looks good. I assume the commander gets to draw it and everyone else sees it. Keep it simple and keep if quick to use. Love this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aittam Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 just realised there are different colors; does this mean that diffrent bots could assigned to a given color and they will follow that path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoniousRex Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 The symbology is actually pretty simple for the bots to interpret. For the first release, they will only pay attention to the Drop Zones and No Drop Zones. On a subsequent release we'll allow them to obey almost all of the others. I'm finding already that it's actually much easier to layout a few general orders via diagram and then let the bots flock to those orders however they like. I don't care if Collins is the one who pins the enemy here, I just want someone to do it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander SquidLord Williams Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Originally posted by ClaytoniousRex: The symbology is actually pretty simple for the bots to interpret. For the first release, they will only pay attention to the Drop Zones and No Drop Zones. On a subsequent release we'll allow them to obey almost all of the others. I'm finding already that it's actually much easier to layout a few general orders via diagram and then let the bots flock to those orders however they like. I don't care if Collins is the one who pins the enemy here, I just want someone to do it right now. Most entirely excellent. I've been meaning to write a lengthy essay for my blog on the issue of communicating commands to systems versus communicating intent, which is something its both far from trivial to do and which really hasn't been done all that much in the RTS field, despite it being a far more realistic method of communication (with the ancient Majesty and the strangely compelling Populous being the main holders of the intent interface). Couple this with the ability to link bots/players to specific squads / units / maniples (which gives away what I've been reading lately), and the ability to give orders for a given unit or "anyone," and the emergent possibilities start looking very, very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Grunt Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Here are some thoughts: 1) Redo the drop window entirely and allow commanders to click and drag multiple units for drops into LZs or deploying areas, rather than one at a time. Show inventories for all assets entirely across the board. 2) When the map is zoomed out completely, remove the names and units and replace just with small unit icons. Use triangles for tracked vehicles, diamonds for wheeled vehicles, squares for infantry for example, but clear out the clutter. 3) Remove names of enemy players completely from the tac map and screen. But still inform players just who killed them in the chat menu for the fun of it, but in reality you probably would have no idea who killed you. 4) Allow commanders to place selected units from the inventory into squads or platoons and be able to number them. Squads or platoons could then be selected by Ctrl-# (for squads 1-9) and then right click to issue orders to the entire squad as a group. Squads could then drop or deploy together. Additionally, waypoints may be then designated by squad. 5) Add range rings for all weapons systems (toggle on/off). 6) There should be an "alert" sound when your base is under attack when you are the defender. 7) New units: -Heavy Turret with 120mm gun -Command Bunker (same ability as Mercury but immobile and camoflaged) -Double barrelled turrets (10mm Ion, 20mm, 76mm) -Pop-up turrets in urban areas -Mortar turret (light, medium, heavy) -Dummy units with anti-matter signatures -Dragon's teeth and other barriers -Long range sensor/radar suite Just some brain storming after another night of on the field of DT world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Originally posted by ClaytoniousRex: "Hold ALL drops" and "Allow ALL drops" buttons for the entire team, etc.) :cool: :cool: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick06 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Here are some thoughts: 1) Redo the drop window entirely and allow commanders to click and drag multiple units for drops into LZs or deploying areas, rather than one at a time. Show inventories for all assets entirely across the board. 2) When the map is zoomed out completely, remove the names and units and replace just with small unit icons. Use triangles for tracked vehicles, diamonds for wheeled vehicles, squares for infantry for example, but clear out the clutter. 3) Remove names of enemy players completely from the tac map and screen. But still inform players just who killed them in the chat menu for the fun of it, but in reality you probably would have no idea who killed you. 4) Allow commanders to place selected units from the inventory into squads or platoons and be able to number them. Squads or platoons could then be selected by Ctrl-# (for squads 1-9) and then right click to issue orders to the entire squad as a group. Squads could then drop or deploy together. Additionally, waypoints may be then designated by squad. 5) Add range rings for all weapons systems (toggle on/off). 6) There should be an "alert" sound when your base is under attack when you are the defender. 7) New units: -Heavy Turret with 120mm gun -Command Bunker (same ability as Mercury but immobile and camoflaged) -Double barrelled turrets (10mm Ion, 20mm, 76mm) -Pop-up turrets in urban areas -Mortar turret (light, medium, heavy) -Dummy units with anti-matter signatures -Dragon's teeth and other barriers -Long range sensor/radar suite Just some brain storming after another night of on the field of DT world. Give him a break for heavens sake... lol nice ideas though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoniousRex Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 Break? We don't need no stinking break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick06 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Okay. Im expecting an update sometime soon then!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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