Early Observations

[Timskorn]

Started a single-player game as the Axis, 1939, Intermediate setting (It's been a good 2 years since I played SC!).

So far SC2 has been everything I've expected it to be. The delays in production are really nice, gives you a sense that you're planning an operation. One really cool touch is the changing skins depending on the environment. When Russia is covered in snow, your units don their snow uniforms and camo. When I dropped my infantry and tank divisions in North Africa they changed to desert camo.

Diplomacy seems pretty tough so far. I had 5 chits in Sweden and for 5+ turns never had any increase. Spain the same thing later, but increased once by 11%. I easily turned Bulgaria early on.

Sub Warfare has been touch and go, overall I've probably lost more MPP's reforming my sub groups than I have taking out shipping lanes. That's been my own fault though.

Battle for Britain never cumulated into anything substantial. One reason was because I invested in a bomber too late, and by the time I could use it I had to transfer my air and HQ over to the Eastern front.

I really like the new move-then-attack system, but it can also feel odd at times. For example, I can attack with a unit I haven't moved, retreat him back a tile and then move another unit in to his spot and attack with that as well. Seems overly mobile to be able to attack THEN move. I understand this was done, but typically in a forward advance. It just seems odd to be able to attack forward and then move backwards to let someone else in.

The Engineer unit is a cool addition. The US just entered the war and now I'm preparing the shores of France with fortifications. I like that you can determine how many sides it protects, but I wish we had the opportunity to move the fortify window around. I'm trying to see which direction I want the fortification to face, but the window blocks my view.

Elite Reinforcements and Upgrades add more than just their face value to the game. Doing either one takes up an entire turn for that unit, so to do both spends two whole turns before it can move out. Not complaining, in fact I like the additional choices we have to make. Do I keep moving forward, reinforce or upgrade its AT capability?

SC2 has, so far, delivered everything I expected it to. I'm not a hardcore MP guy, so I can't speak from that perspective. The upgrades, diplomacy, expanded research, move rules, events, graphical enhancements all provide a varied strategic experience that should provide countless replayability...and did I mention the editor???

I want to get a few games in from both sides, and also some more operational battles before I can make a final verdict. So far, so good though.

[Blashy]

Remember diplomacy is only 5% per chit, so 5 chits is 25% per turn, not high odds. I've seen a whole game with 5 chits and only getting ONE hit with no counter diplomacy from my opponent.

Only occured once.

[Timskorn]

Yep, and I'm okay with that. I'd rather it be more difficult than have the ability to easily sway countries.

So I'm almost done with my first game on Intermediate. It was pretty easy, mainly because Russia only managed to create one decent defensive line and that was at Stalingrad.

Rommel and Afrika Corps, along with two Italian armies, their navy and AF took Alexandria fairly early. You really have to get a lot of units there because of the supply issues.

I fortified the coast of France with an Engineer but I don't see the Allies invading anytime soon, unfortunately. I have level 4 fighters and level 3 bombers hitting England, and I have about 3 subs, 2 BB's and 1 DD out in the Atlantic unchallenged and wreaking havoc ok UK supply. It's July 1944.

I've noticed some mistakes the AI made (or maybe didn't, you tell me). In Russia, the AI didn't seem to try and hold a line. What I mean is, they moved units out of entrenchment for meager counter-attacks when they should stay put. In the middle-east, the last allied unit there was the HQ O'Connor. He was in the city across the canal east of Alexandria. I sent two Italian armies, 1 AF and an HQ to get him out. It took a good 5 turns or so, but what I didn't understand is why the AI kept re-plenishing his losses. It must have been a huge drain on the UK economy keeping this guy alive. It did hold up my Italian army for 5 turns, but it doesn't seem worth the MPP cost.

I know this is the AI and it's going to do silly stuff, but I'm just making an observation. The US never seemed to get off the ground either. They had a couple bombers in England, and they have a few Army units and an HQ unit in England. But that's all I've seen so far. They haven't tried to land in NA yet, nor seem to be in a position to put much pressure on France. Will have to wait and see...

I'm not sure how much has changed in regards to supply in SC2, but it feels "right". You can really see the effects of losing supply. At Stalingrad right now, for example, I have 2 HQ's nearby but my units on the front line can only get a max of 7 reinforcements and they also can't upgrade to newer models.

Will be starting an Allies game soon and cranking it up to Hard.

[Blashy]

Those AI issues about Russia have already been mentioned to Hubert. :cool:

[Marky]

seems the game is heavily biased towards allies..

cant purchase units :S

cant set usa and ussr to neutral as in SC1

the whole point of playing as axis is to WIN and change history, not relive it...

[Blashy]

GenMarky, play the game. IMHO, if hte Axis play right, they can win, at worse the game ends in a stalemate.

Just don't make all the dumbass decisions Hitler (military genius wannabe) made.

[Marky]

i am playing the game. it shouldnt be about playing right, this is a GAME not an actual WAR. its supposed to be FUN! i dont want stalemate i want VICTORY

and its supposed to be BLITZKRIEG not SITSkrieg

my first impressions are very rarely wrong

i hope this will all be reflected in patches

[Marky]

not that im putting down every1 after the work they did but i really do hope there are options added with future patches

[Blashy]

You are playing the game and you state you can't purchase units? I don't get that one.

You CAN set USA and USSR to neutral.

The editor, EVERYTHING is there.

[Timskorn]

Biased towards allies? I just smoked the AI on Intermediate.

Playing as Allies right now and it's late 1941 and everything is up in the air right now. UK is crippled, it's fleet alive but badly hit from the Battle of the Atlantic. The only bright spot is North Africa where I'm meeting early success driving west against the Italians.

I've developed my main defensive line in Russia running along the Dniepr, setting up fortifications around Stalingrad and slowly getting level 3 heavy tanks up and running, building for a good summer offensive. If they break my lines at the Dniepr though, Stalingrad will be my last hope to hold off a Russian collapse.

[pzgndr]

i really do hope there are options added with future patches

Are you suggesting that we failed to provide ENOUGH options with SC2??

- Weather effects on/off

- Production delays on/off

- Soft Build Limits on/off

- Cooperative vs non-cooperative allies

- Seasonal turns or specified days/turn

- Railheads on/off for operational movement

- Builds restricted to home country or not

- etc., etc., etc.

I thought we did a heck of a job creating a game with as many options and as much flexibility as possible. Virtually EVERYTHING is editable.

i hope this will all be reflected in patches

"This" what? What options are you looking for that you do not already have with the SC2 Editor and game options? Lemme tall ya, you have not yet begun to get bored with all of the game design capability we have placed into YOUR hands.

In fairness, Hubert IS considering enhancements to the game. There are a several additional things needed to make a decent global WWII game possible, as well as better operational scenarios of smaller scale. So we're looking for player feedback. But for this WWII European Theater of Operations grand strategy game, most all of the important options are in place for players to enjoy and experiment with. By the time you start to get bored with all that, we'll probably have something more ready. :cool:

[Sombra]

Originally posted by GenMarky:

i am playing the game. it shouldnt be about playing right, this is a GAME not an actual WAR. its supposed to be FUN! i dont want stalemate i want VICTORY

and its supposed to be BLITZKRIEG not SITSkrieg

my first impressions are very rarely wrong

i hope this will all be reflected in patches

Though you are unable to win with the axis against the AI ??? And you are seriously asking for patches to adress this?????????? :confused:

You can´t find the button to build units????

:cool: Hmmm, sure you picked the right hobby? :cool:

[hellraiser]

Hubert will add a 'win' button just for you, stay calm ...

Hubert, leave all thoughts of going on vacation - start working on the 'win button' patch ASAP!!!

"my first impressions are very rarely wrong " - oh don't gimme that ... I don't want to know about your last date "Hmmm my first impressions about her are not so good... tonite I guess I'll be playing ... ermm.. hotseat?'

Welcome to the SC2 forum, btw. Flaming is just another way to say 'hi'

[Timskorn]

I won my game as the Allies in late 1944. Some possible AI issues I noticed. If these have been posted before, my apologies, but the more the better if Hubert is working on the AI.

- Axis seemed to ignore North Africa completely. The Italians sent a few ships to challenge mine, but that was it. My initial forces formed in Alexandria were enough to take all of North Africa and land at the tip of the 'boot'.

- Italian airforce was placed near Brest for almost entire length of the game. I was able to shell and hit it with AF, bringing it down to low strength, and they would continually bring it back up to 10 strength. Total waste of MPP's.

- Axis forces didn't seem built up very well for Barbarossa, and their AI attacks were always peicemeal against my lines. Half of their forces were comprised of Italian and minor armies. They sent one Army division to Leningrad, unsupported. They also seemed to have way too many HQ units.

- Once I arrived to Germany and the southern minor countries, the AI seemed to go Op-Move crazy. One turn they'd sent a tank group up north, the next turn they'd send it back south again. This was done multiple times with different units.

-Axis subs seemed to work well. They escaped my detection for awhile, would retreat and eventually go hit the shipping lanes again. Seems really well done so far.

With the US AI broken I'll probably be playing Allies until a patch comes out, and cranking difficulty way up (Hard, + experience bars). I know people will exclaim, "Use the editor!!" to fix things, which I may do in the future, but there are some things I expect to work out of the box so to speak. The two major ones being the US AI properly operating in England, and the Russian AI defending better (which I know Hubert is working on currently).

The other things, like Italians working in North Africa more and the German AI barbarossa are still things I'd like to see improved, but they aren't gamebreakers.

[Blashy]

Point 1, 3, 4, 6 Hubert is already aware and working on it.

[Timskorn]

Sweet, thanks.

[Hubert Cater]

Timskorn,

Thanks for the feedback and yes the next patch should resolve most if not all of these issues.

Hubert

[Timskorn]

Thanks for the reply Hubert. I know how well you patched up SC1, and if future patches mirror the effort done on SC1 we can expect some great stuff!

[Agamemnon]

You are playing the game and you state you can't purchase units? I don't get that one.

I get that one. You (I) can't purchase units. The manual says to "click purchase". I can click it all day, every day, it's not going to purchase anything. The result is you get what you have and what's in the production and that's it. You lose a unit, it's gone, no replacements. Want to add air? Not going to happen. The MMP's you have to go to reinforcements and upgrades and that's it, as far as units go. There is lots of mmp's for research and such, but I would like to be able to purchase units. Why have the screen if you can't use it? Is just for looks? So you can claim it as an option?

I get it. It's not fun.

[Lars]

You playing the demo or the full game?

[Blashy]

That has to be the demo.