Ok whats your opinion of the patch?

[Exel]

Originally posted by Vic Rattlehead:

I'm stiiiiil waiting to see Russia upgrade its units.

They are not?

[hellraiser]

Blashy, I know what you mean - trapping the italian ships using the french ones as well - I tried to do that to Yoda but he created a row of ships from Tobruk while some other blocked the passage

I only could trap that lousy sub in the middle of the sea, using 8 allied ships ... and gues what...stupid sub (5 strength) survived at 2 the turn Italy joined !!!

[Blashy]

Actually what you do is wait in hiding with the French and UK ships, make it so Italy joins early and when it does you have overwhelming odds.

There is no way you can miss that once you've perfected the technique, it was your first time.

Each time me and the other beta tester sank 4 of 5 Italian ships this way. We both stopped blocking, hehe.

[Sombra]

After a playing a while I think that SC2 is depending much much more on luck then SC1.

-You need luck in weather as axis

-Some luck in diplomacy

-Research you need now quite a lot of luck

What do you do if you invest your six chits and nothing comes up for 1,5 year. You can only buy more and more (outdated) troops you can´t invest your industrial superority and buy more research to counter bad luck with money... Its just plain frustrating and sorry stupid

[jon_j_rambo]

@SomeBunta --- Gee, you think? You figure that out by yourself or still following Yoda? WHAT DID I TELL YOU GUYS? Diplo would "be cool" for about 2-games. Now, it's just another thing you have to manage & hope for some luck.

[Fubarno]

If there wasn't variability, i.e. some luck involved, than the game would be cookie cutter/BORING everytime. Play the odds, but be ready to accept some luck in either direction. Or, go play checkers and chess for pure, no luck strategy. Not too many strategy games out there that don't involve a dice roll of some kind.

[Sombra]

Still strange that nearly all games I play now the rusians simply have better tech then the germans.

If I have to play checkers why don´t you play monopoly when this is your kind of strategy game?

Luck has its role in strategy games if you compensate "bad" luck up to a certain degree. If luck begins to form a dominant part in the game then its more like playing poker unfortunatley you can´t bluff very well in SC2.

Right now Germany can and will usally invest 6-7 research chits. Unfortunately even Rusia can invest at least 2-3 chits more... Okay they have to buy troops but in the beginning Germany needs to build up its base for later wins. If the screw up only a little for example no advance in IW and or tanks and the rusian side has a little luck... More or less game over for Germany. At least in Patch 1.00 they could overcompensate and buy more and more research . As mentioned before tech is very (over?) powerful in the game. . Hellraiser expressed it weill IW3 against IW0 is fighting with phasers against pistols.

[ June 06, 2006, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Sombra ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Question: In Germany, do they celebrate D-Day, June 6th?

[Jollyguy]

I agree with Fubarno, IMO I like the new element of variability and luck of SC 2. SC 1 was a great game, but eventually did get to be an exercise between cookie cutters, so it became stale. With that in mind I would actually like to see more not less variability in SC 2.

I've been playing backgammon for years now, and in the long run the better player wins many more games than he loses, but it's those games where your buddy spins three doubles down the backstretch or others where odd things happen with stretches of good and bad luck that you remember, and then razz each other about it for days and weeks. Meanwhile the routine games fade from memory, blending into the background along with all the other routine games.

Bob

[Franky-Boy]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Question: In Germany, do they celebrate D-Day, June 6th?

It's off-topic, but I say it in this way: no, much more people in Germany (and Europe) will celebrate, if this emperor does not reign any more:

Ciao Frank

[Blashy]

You'll find in time that weather is actually pretty constant, the only difference being that one year you might be able to have a few more good weather turns to attack, while others you won't. But it goes both ways.

As for research, at first I did not like the idea of Hubert's catch up bonus, but it does work and makes sense.

Diplomacy needs a slight change to make it more interesting (no canceling out of chits) but after tons of game I can attest that Diplomacy is rarely the kingmaker, actually I can only remember 2 games where Diplomacy was the key in one side winning and one of those was the other player not paying attention.

[Rolend]

But that catch up bonus is a double whammy for the Germans since their total MPP's allowed in research has been lowered. I still think that this patch went to far the other way and the Germans now have to have luck to win. Everything has to go perfect for them where as the Allies you have some wiggle room plus you can hope that all does not go perfect for the Germans.

By the way lets try and stay away from the politics for a few days guys, it got a little too intense for a while. I am am here for the game

[Slapaho]

I think the luck (good or bad) is part of life and makes for a more intersting and varied game. If two equally matched players are head to head then luck splits them. However, if a poor player can beat a good player then this would be bad, but i do not think the game is that unbalanced by the luck for this to happen. Good players still beat bad players

Does anywhere 'celebrate' D-Day? In France it is commemorated each year, with delegations from those countries that took part (including Germany) laying wreaths at their war memorials. My sig shows some of them

[jon_j_rambo]

I'm curious, what Holidays do you celebrate if you're a Bunta? Do you celebrate headcracking France? Poland? The Wall falling down in the late 80's?

[Slapaho]

Use Google and start your own threads.

[hellraiser]

Diplomacy ain't the kingmaker, Blashy is right - only if one side doesn't pay attention or super luck is involved. Super luck can happen once every XXXX games, ain't breaking no gameplay imho.

Sombra all those things you mentioned (weather and stuff) are not game breakers. One year you have better weather, the other year weather gets worse - what's the problem? You relocate some troops to sunnier areas (like waxing Vicky, or whatever country in the Med) you move the troops back in Russia when the weather gets better. Axis is not really supposed to capture Urals in 41, right? I have the ideea that a lot of ppl think that game should be concluded in 41 or 42. Games can be played until 44,45 even 47.

OMG WTF t3h @llie2 are beeyotches in v 1.01!!! You're kidding me. Axis just cannot step over their neck so easily, they were made tougher, v 1.00 Axis was ovepowered. V 1.01 gave us a lot more balance. In my latest game as Axis I got IW 2 in late 43 or early 44 despite 4 chits since forever, and still was able to push forward. Game can be played and it is fun but don't just expect one side to obliterate the other in one year.

And yes, bad luck is indeed frustrating but I do not see it as a gamebreaker, it only provide some randomness needed to keep the game interesting. Once in a while you'll encounter the super bad luck - you get over it, the next game it won't happen the same way. Techs, weather - you decide your actions taking those factors into account. It has a lot of sense. In RL, military actions are planned and taken bearing a lot of xtra factors in mind.

I frankly consider you guys bitch too much and play too few games. Get your asses to work first. Ideeas of improvement come after you play several more games not just 2 games after the patch is out.

Yoda, where are you? I need some support here to calm down these kids

[devoncop]

Hellraiser.

Finally a sense of proportion.I dont post too often here though read the forums for tips like it is going out of fashion.Yes 1.0 was unbalanced but as a newcomer to the SC series I was hugely impressed with the overall engine.

1.1 is much more of a headscratcher as the Axis which is bang on.Not perfect ,ok, but like you say ,please guys play the game several times on multiplayer with different opponents before trashing the thing.

I actually have yet to play MP as I am still having fun with discovering the game's finer points.

Will shut up now as we Brits dont like being too up front but please can the detractors tone things down and reflect a bit.

Cheers

Ian

[Terif]

Yep, in V1.01 Axis is still in the advantage, but not so much any more as in V1.0 . So no easy walk over like before and Axis can´t expect any more to win already in 1941/42. With equally matched players it will usually go at least till 43, more likely 44-46.

Nevertheless, Axis has much more opportunities to do something wrong than Allies. Especially with taking minors and border garrison for Russia. So for new players it certainly seems like Axis has no chance. And if you just start playing without much reading the rules/manual, then Axis has in deed not much chances - but they only need to learn first the basics, then it is nearly balanced. Perhaps the beginners guide will help that will be online this weekend at Panzerliga .

Luck is a bit of an issue in SC 2, especially with tech since tech is a bit too powerful for my taste at the moment. But since even with not so good luck usually both sides get near max levels in combat techs shortly after Barbarossa if they start researching early enough, so luck is usually no game breaker except for the extreme cases of course.

Weather is not that much of an issue IMO , you only have to adopt to the weather situation (e.g. reinforce/reorganize during bad weather instead of going into the offensive).

Variability is a good thing, but it should be achieved by beeing able to choose between different strategies/approaches and not by having good or bad luck - hopefully the next patches will bring the game more in this direction .

[hellraiser]

Good points.

Ref luck - I really consider a moderate luck factor as necessary to keep the game fun. Without the luck factor or at least some randomness involved somewhere, any computer game is subject to standardized cookie cutter strategies/tactics. After all we do not play chess. And I think , in RL, every great military genius had his fair share of luck

To me, so far SC2 is far more of a strategy game than SC1 - you really have some alternatives. Definitely I enjoy it more

[Guest Mike]

Computer just ran over me at 100/+1 - it being hte allies. But then I did try to see how much of Europe I could get on my side diplomatically - got the Turks just as the T34's were approaching Berlin, but the Finns and Norwegians held out.

Found that Yugoslav partisans can be a real pain if you have Iraq and Turkey - they cut the connection with Berlin just before the end and every Axis supply and resource location/point to the East of them dropped to 5!!

BTW has anyone else noticed a minor graphic glitch - Sov Lvl 3 tanks use the T26 icon???

[Stragic Command]

I like to play the Allies! I ask if the Axis can now beat me? I remember the Axis does not know how to defend so can the AI defend as Axis now?

[Hugh Hefner]

I think the patch is great. I think this game is great. Life is good.

[hellraiser]

now we have some optimism here, don't we? Or is it the MJ involved?