Real German WWII flag

[Chris G]

Have anyone made one yet or is it coming in some patch? I find the current fantasy flag more and more irritating after I noticed the flaw.

[Retributar]

Seems like im an 'Echo' around here! lately...but, again i agree with another statement from someone else, this time it's your above said statement... 'Chris G'!.

[Chris G]

Has no one got the real flag yet?

If you have it pls mail it to chris.g@tjohoo.se.

Thx in advance!

[AstroCat]

I admit I was wondering about this and any other graphic mods as well.

[Chris G]

I'm been travelling some days and just got back. To my surprise I still don't find any real German flag. Is anyone working on it yet?

[AstroCat]

Did anyone ever end up doing a historical flag mod?

[hellraiser]

That unrealistic flag greatly imbalances the game, especially the multiplayer part -> germans lose 2% morale per turn because they fight under a fake flag ...

[Mr.Dozer]

lol funny hellraiser.

Also i agree i would prefer a more historic one. I made one for just the world map but it seems smaller because i used if from sc1

[Jim Mason]

I think there's a problem with using swastikas in Germany. That's probably why some games don't come with them.

I remember model planes from some company (20+ years ago) where I had to assemble the swastika decals - needless to say they didn't turn out well.

I also think non-gamers tend to freak out when they see a screen full of Nazi flags. I know a friend of mine had all kinds of WWII flags hanging in his game room, including a couple Nazi ones (remember, these are in context with Italian, British, Japanese, US-48 star, etc.) and it was still a little disconcerting to see those two (the main Nazi one and I think the other was the kriegsmarine one with the little swastika in a small circle at the center of a large cross) life size and hanging on the walls.

But anyway - despite my misgivings, I too would like to see a "realer" presentation.

[Terry]

Just to comfirm it is illegal to display the Swastika in Germany and Austria - be it on a commercial product or personal item (I think a few other countries such as those in the Baltic follow suit as well but can't remember). For this reason most software and book publishers intending to distribute their products in continental Europe either avoid the Swastika or prepare an alternative.

In Germany and Austria in particular there are very strict laws about the Nazi's and the Holocaust. Recently, a British historian who is a Holocuast denier ( :mad: ) was jailed in Austria.

This may all seem a bit strict for those in the USA and UK but we have to remeMber that the Nazi's, the Holocaust and Hitler are still very sensitive issues in Central and Eastern Europe.

For this reason I can cope without the Swastika in the game.

[Wisbech_lad]

Chris G - what did you mean by "holohoax" on the closed thread? And looking for "historic" flag? And a sig that could be taken as anti-israeli.

[Cheese Panzer]

Originally posted by Wisbech_lad:

Chris G - what did you mean by "holohoax" on the closed thread? And looking for "historic" flag? And a sig that could be taken as anti-israeli.

The sig is a now famous tiff between the French and the British that happened not too long ago: Somehere in the mid-1990's there was an Embassy dinner in London hosted by the French. The British Foreign Secretary (Jack Straw? I'm not sure) and his wife attended. The above quote (I've also heard it as "Isn't Isreal just a ****ty little country?") was spouted off by the French Ambassador. The British minister's wife was a writer for a London newspaper and published the whole ugly mess the next day. The French were outraged! How dare the British publish something said at a dinner party! They even demanded at retraction from the government. Obviously they didn't and the event pisses people on both sides off to this day.

[Chris G]

The question remains, have anyone got or planed to make a historical German WWII flag?

[Desert Dave]

For this reason I can cope without the Swastika in the game.

And so can I.

I won't use it, though,

For personal reasons of my own,

Which may,

Or may not be evident

To even the most obtuse, later.

_____________________________________

**To clear up a few matters, which I don't HAVE

To do, but, due to implications made

By a few, feel that I should:

Nice that you'll place a wreath at Dresden, Dave. Tell us, were you also planning to place a wreath at Auschwitz, Rotterdam, Belgrade, Warsaw, Coventry, Babi Yar, Lidice, Oradour...

Yes DT.

And a wreath at Treblinka as well.

And,

Should I get there,

Prayers, lighted candles and flowers at:

Wounded Knee,

Shilo,

And, the Alamo.

Haiku Dave seems to feel that the destruction of Dresden was unnecessary, though others believe it was a legitimate military target.

If there is any haiku, DT,

It is purely accidental.

I write from listening to "inside sounds"

And not any formula.

BTW, the fire-bombing of Dresden was unecessary

And not a legitimate military target IMO.

Nor was ANY action taken

By ANY war-planners that targeted ANY civilian

Non-combatants.

Of ANY country, at ANY time,

Then, or now.

For me the destruction of Dresden was not only unnecessary, it was a pure act of evil.

As was the bombing of Hamburg, Berlin,

Rotterdam, Warshau, London etc, etc.

I am sure DD feels the same.

Yes, KT, I do.

Evil does exist, no doubt in MY mind,

It is not any spectre or superstition

Made up by monks or zealots, no,

It is... real,

I have seen it.

Interesting to me

That since - The Renaissance,

Since - The Age of Enlightenment,

Since - Man has placed himself

At the Center of the Universe,

We have had ALL these acts of evil

Over the last several centuries.

Partly due to population pressures,

Partly due to rise of "Nationalism"

And,

Partly due to a hundred other reasons,

Which we don't have time for now.

But,

Mainly due to lack of determined, dedicated

Folks who stand up and OPPOSE

Those who would perpetrate such acts,

Individually done,

Or by being a mind-less coward

And hiding in a group

As was, is the case with KKK.

Yep, I mostly grew up down South,

I know all about them, first hand.

Read the following stories then tell me the people who decided to bomb Dresden and use THE bomb should be lumped into the same sentence as possible war criminals as DD did.

I don't have to read your linked stories

Rolend,

I have up close and personal "family"

Who can tell me how their

Friends and relatives

Did not make it out in time,

Thanks anyway.

________________________________

The person or persons responsible

For fire-bombing Dresden are war criminals.

They should be prosecuted,

Even now.

The person or persons responsible

For Wounded Knee or Waco or

Recent torturing done in Iraq,

Or Tiger Force in VN,

Which I had heard about,

Should be prosecuted,

Even now.

Get it?

And so.

I do believe that takes care of all mention

Of my name

In the other thread,

And the comments made by those

Who, well meaning, or ill,

Implied that I would EVER condone

Evil acts... by anyone,

Foe, or one-time, long-time friend.

Time to move on.

[ May 24, 2006, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by Chris G:

The question remains, have anyone got or planed to make a historical German WWII flag?

I think you can conclude that the answer is no. So break out your Etch-a-Sketch and make your own.

[Rolend]

Well DD I understand where you are coming from but I still don't agree. To me to judge some one who has to make an on the spot war decision, without the hind sight of years of history to help make that decision, in the same category with true evil criminals is just plain wrong and way to "can't we just all get along" for me.

WAR IS HELL period and that is why it should never be used only as a last resort. I hope you don't have this idea that we can somehow EVER cleanly fight a war. Frankly I am glad it is brutal it helps keep us from using it as a normal tool. Being an old Star Trek fan (the original series not all those touchy feely crap that followed) I remember one show where they came across a race of people who did just that, fought a nice clean war by the rules. The jest of the story was that because it was such a clean war they did not have the motivation to end it, so it went on for generations.

War is hell, ugly and brutal and people die. Maybe now that modern technology has made war even more deadly it will help keep us from using it in only the most extreme cases. But if it is used it should be managed in a way to bring about the swiftest conclusion no matter what is needed.

Denying the 'enemy' the tools to fight a war and yes that means the people who make the war machine possible, is in my opinion a very proper target of war. Wars are won and lost by the machine behind the troops as much as the troops themselves thus making them a valid target. I know this sounds heartless and cruel that is what war is and if you are going to take part in it then you have to be ready for the realities of war.

Personally I think the decision to bomb Dresden was a mistake and was done more for ‘payback’ and revenge then a sound military target but it was a valid war time target and should not be considered a war crime.

[Desert Dave]

You want the "last word" Rolend?

I give it to you, gratis.

We each "see" and "sense" the World

Uniquely.

We each have different "hard-wiring"

Which accounts for traits

That just NEVER change.

Nurturing CAN provide civilized

And more sophisticated,

More tolerant behavior, yet

'Ol Lizard Brain ain't goin' away

Any time soon.

Good that it is such & so,

That we each see our own Kaleidoscope, else

There could be no sythesis

And/or anitithesis,

Of competing theses, eh?

I have said ALL I care to regarding

This matter.

I respect your viewpoint, and!

LOVED

The ambiance and rustling palm-trees

And them soft-wafting ocean breezes

Then I visited yer absolutely charming

City of San Diego, oh,

Back in early 80's I believe it was.

Try my desert?

Do as I do,

If you care to.

Saunter on out, in Indian-made,

Beaded & blessed moccasins,

Sans any hat - just the bandanna

Looped 'round yer neck,

For, oh, let's say 10-20 miles out,

10-20 miles back.

No water.

No victuals or jerky.

No nuthin' 'cept yer faith

That you WILL return.

Well,

That's ONE way to "toughen up"

Just enough

To take good care of:

The psychopaths,

The sociopaths,

The power-mad,

The "hunters" with their Glocks & machine-guns,

The deranged terrorists,

The home intruders,

And all them neo-belligerent Punks

That seem to, increasingly,

Dominate our diminishing democracy,

And, IMO, at VERY highest levels

Of disdained "Government,"

Which,

After all is only - you and me and the rest,

Requesting various safe-guards

WRT to edible food, patched hi-ways,

Disease control and "in check" defense,

Not to mention,

Safety-nets for those not GIFTED,

Nor FORTUNATE to be so

BUKU ballsy and grab-it-all bad!

War?

Been there, done that.

Self protection of family,

Have nary enny doubts, my friend,

I can do that as well.

And, should it come to it, shall.

But that is different than "war crimes,"

And on that, well,

We'll, apparently, ever

And, for-ever disagree.

Say la Vie, fine by me.

[jon_j_rambo]

I'm glad you guys have seen the light...there are lots of Nazi dudes attracted to this SC stuff. I figured that out 4 years ago. This Chris G. is really Heyrich Gerherd or something like that.

@Chris G. --- Pal, you lost. Your hereos tried to murder the world, and well, The Chosen People have a country of their own culture, and yours...well burned with that flag you can't have.

[Rolend]

Bows to DD

Which Desert? I been all over the place, spent years in Germany, East coast, Mid West. My folks moved to Nv a few years back so I spend a lot of time in that Desert. Also I love the Utah Canyon area, there is something very beautiful and soul touching when standing in the vastness and loneliness of the desert.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Rolend --- Maybe the Lord is trying to talk to you? Getting away from people can be a good thing.

[Rolend]

Oh yea Rambo no doubt, in fact when I retire, which won't be to many years off now, I am moving someplace a little quieter and slower paced. Some place I can breath without bumping elbows.

[Desert Dave]

Rolend, knowing the real:

... there is something very beautiful and soul touching when standing in the vastness and loneliness of the desert.

Could not have said it better.

We lose "touch" with the Mighty Mystery,

EVER in evidence - should we really look,

Then we are surely lost.

All the rest

That there socio & politico friction

CAN be resolved, and, IMHO,

One time,

One a' these "great awakening days"

Shall indeed be... approached, attained. :cool:

Now,

Gotta go out and mow my little patch

Of valiantly defying!

(... sun's gravitas!)

Grass and, naturally - 'em dandelions too.

Tend to the Trees, they are thirsting, and,

LOL, it's true, actually calling out for me:

"Hey ~ 22% Crazy Dave! Hop to it,

Do the Waltz or the Twist,

I ain't care, so long as you

Locate the sweet-water spot

Thence you loosen 'at spigot!"

[Blashy]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

I'm glad you guys have seen the light...there are lots of Nazi dudes attracted to this SC stuff. I figured that out 4 years ago. This Chris G. is really Heyrich Gerherd or something like that.

@Chris G. --- Pal, you lost. Your hereos tried to murder the world, and well, The Chosen People have a country of their own culture, and yours...well burned with that flag you can't have.

JJvR you often mistake current total disdain for US foreign policy as people who have felt this way about USA since day one and thus are Nazi fans in some form or another.

Not true, I'm happy of USA's great role in WW2, but I don't consider the USA that took part in WW2 the same USA AFTER 1950 or so.

As for Chris, I read the holohoax post, I am under the impression he means it as it has poped up more than once with him not responding about it and for that, seeing him banned would make my day :cool: .

As for the Nazi flag, I don't want to see it and if anyone makes it available and says so on these forums, I would hope they get banned. Keep it private.

[Rolend]

I am not a fan of banning or book burning, the free exchange of ideas even bad ones is needed. As long as he keeps it polite IMO he is welcome to express his views, besides it makes it eaiser spot the people I would prefer to stay way from if I know where they stand

[dicedtomato]

What the desert does for Dave, evergreen forests do for me. We moved from the Northeast to the Pacific Northwest to get away from noise, congestion and Darwinian struggle with other rats in the race.

Soft light from a cloudy canopy over tree-clad hills. It's good for the soul.

DT