Terry

Let's remember that Patton isn't remembered in Europe with the same enthusiasm as in the States. Given that, the majority of Europeans were unlikley to support his great 'plan' to wipe out the final remains of Europe with a self-destructive war with Russia in '45. It's just one of those ideas that sounds great when you're on the other side of a very wide pond.

Just to comfirm it is illegal to display the Swastika in Germany and Austria - be it on a commercial product or personal item (I think a few other countries such as those in the Baltic follow suit as well but can't remember). For this reason most software and book publishers intending to distribute their products in continental Europe either avoid the Swastika or prepare an alternative. In Germany and Austria in particular there are very strict laws about the Nazi's and the Holocaust. Recently, a British historian who is a Holocuast denier ( :mad: ) was jailed in Austria. This may all seem a bit strict for those in the USA and UK but we have to remeMber that the Nazi's, the Holocaust and Hitler are still very sensitive issues in Central and Eastern Europe. For this reason I can cope without the Swastika in the game.

I always take Norway - it's easy to take, opens up your routes to the Atlantic for subs and raiders, is easy to defend, is a good platform for attacking Sweden, threatens Scapa Flow and northern Britian, can go for Iceland. Plus if things go bad the Allies may waste time taking it instead of getting on with the real deal!

Really like Paratroopers - useful on specfici occasiions, not too powerful or plentiful. Like engineers but too slow and expensive for what they do (except for Russia around MoscoW). Also like the HQ for minors like Canada, Spain and Finland plus the ability to buy units for them. Would like to buy research for them. Don't like Rockets (too long to get going) & carriers a bit dissapointing.

One ongoing minor irritant in SC1 & SC2 is that when as the Allies you declare war and conquer Vichy France it does not revert back to France but becomes a conquered nation of the Major that took it. Realistically there is no way that the UK or US would not hand back this area to the Free French. Even if you conquer Vichy first (which can happen if you take theNorth Africa / Operation Torch route with the US) it should still be handed over once Paris is liberated. Can we chnage this easily?

I presume the point is that The Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg are seperate countries. Apart from the fact some people may not appreciate having their country subsumed into a non-existent conglomerate (anybody for North America rather than USA & Canada?, it is a perfectly acceptable scenario for the Axis to invade Belgium to outflank the Maginot Line but leave the Dutch neutral (as in WW1). Presumably you would adjust the impact on US reaction (less for just Belgium than Belgium and The Netherlands together). Also a useful buffer against advancing Allies in 44/45. Given the scale of the game I agree using Benelux is an excellent high level soluition - however, given the power of the editor if someone wants to do the above changes why not?

I think you'll find America already has its first flirtation with Facism - he's called George Bush. Opps, I forgot - under the new reigme rules you're not allowed to criticse the reigme!

Personally, I'd like Eisenhower and Clark to have the ability to command Commowealth and Free French units as well as American - both were successfully able to do this (in contrast to Patton, McArthur and Stillwell who had no ability whatsoever to command respect from their Allies troops). This flexibility would counter balance the limited pool available.

I used to play World In Flames from the Australian Design Group (it is a map tiles based board game). As in SC 'Lapland' didn't exsist. There was a lot of agitation for a connecting additional map and eventually one was brought out. And guess what - no one ever used it because it was simply swamp, unpassable hexes and mountains. No movement, no supply - nightmare. In addtion it just wasn't strategically important enough in the German attack to justify diverting from Smolensk or Sevastapol or Minsk or anywhere really. A similar thing happened when a further additional map was prodiced to connect the European and Eastern maps (to cater for the Rommel fantasy). Basically it never got used because if the Grmans or Japanese were driving into Delhi why bother - strategically the Allies had already lost or else why would the Germans or Japenese be there? Smae applies to Archangel and Murmansk - it would have to be one weird game to justify why the Germans had them but had not won. So basically extendeding the map for areas that are never likley to be fought over or if they are one side has already (in reality) lost why bother. Which leads me back to Lpaland quite nicely. QED. I'd also add that extending the hexes in North Africa is nice but again can also go too far. Armies did not have the infrastructure to operate too far from the coast and what exsisting infrastrucre there was. You can't get away from the fact that EL Alamein was, and remains to this day, a practical abd very real bottlekneck because of geography and the reality of infrastructure. So lets extend the map where it improves playability and realisitic winning options but simply because 'it's there'.

The naval HQ's seem a brilliant idea - after all the convoy systems bewteen the US and UK were all controlled by the North Atlantic HQ in Liverpool (which still survives today and can be visted). The air HQ systems simply reflect the British 'sector' idea and again should work. Edwins point on assigning invidual leaders names is excellent, although I can't help but add (tongue in cheek) that maybe Patton should also get +1 for fighting his own men!

"I'm sure that Paras played a bigger role than Rockets. If for nothing else they were". Not in Russia, mate. Ask any German who got a got a full truckload of rockets on his head.

Taking Iceland would undoubtedly have some effect on UK supplies. However, surely there would be a huge cranking of US war readiness and how efective would a German defence be unless they controlled the UK and Canada (if they did why bother with Iceland). Again its a nice extra but i still think we are not talking a major (or even meduim) truning point.

Intersting points and well made. For myself, I would like to see some chance where either France fights to the end (i.e. no Vichy) or accepts Churchills offer of Union (absorbed into CW and released on paris liberation). I hate the way in strategic level games you can do non-historical things like invade Turkey (which absoultely no one wanted to do) but you can't avoid Vichy (which was never a certainty).

Some interesting points but my take is that they are irrelevant from a strategic point of view: 1)Icelands independence in 1944 made no practical diffence to its status and its reliance on Denmark economically and to the US/GB for protection. So it doesn't make any real difference what its status is at the start of the game. From a stratgeic point of view its occupation by Germany may have boosted the U-Boat campiagn and hence damaged Lend/Lease etc. However, while certainly it is true the Germans might have taken it quickly the reality is they would never have had the reources to defend it against an American attack. So owning should make a difference but it is not one of those fundamnetal turning points. 2) Egypt as a seperate country seems pointless. If its occupied by the Axis,then its occupied and that should be enough. Whta difference does it make if its Axis occupied or a puppet reigme under Nazi control. The fact is they were occupied either way and it probably suited them more to be occupied by the British than the Germans/Itals (who didn't have a great record for grafting themselves onto local cultures (which was the British method used so successfully)). Indonesia etc showed that the 'liberated' people soon turned aginst their new occuppiers. It was for this reasin the INP eventually decided it was better to be 'British' for the war then Axis. Again its a nice gesture but I hope Hubert is concentrating on more fundamental issues to the game mechanic. After all, a Panzer Division in Alexnadria is all that is strategically required.

Tragically, I was unable to come up with a cunning plan and despite sinking the Italian Fleet and concentrating enough in the Middle east to hold Iraq I'm afraid it's a case of cat & mouse with me cast as the small brown rodent! When the Germans start naval bombardments of Newcastle you know its all over. Congratulations to Gavrok and good luck to both players in the final. Thanks to those made this all possible.

August 1940. Quick update on the other semi-final game. Summary: I'm getting a right good kicking from Gavrok who's playing a blinder as the Axis! Also making mistakes like Mr Mistake of 15 Mistake Rd, Mistakeville, Mistakeland isn't helping! Denmark fell turn 1 and Poland turn 2. Greece follwed in a single amphibious invasion approx turn 6. Following a series of spectacular blunders by the French high command (who are completely unrelated to my goodself to whom no blame can be attached) France was gone by March along with all its units. June saw the demise of Vichy and Malta. July Sweden. Fortunately, Switzerland is holding up and looks promising! On the plus side (and the serious side) the UK is relativey ok - Egypt well stocked and Italian troop ship bound for Syria sunk plus Italians swap carrier and battleships in the West Med. BEF still holding Narvik and hefty tech research (although not much results as yet). However, unless I come with some pretty cunning plan (i.e. so clever you could put a tail on it and call it a fox) and there is a serious change in fortune it looks like a drubbing. Still it just gives me the excuse for a prodigious comeback next time!

I played the allies vs disorder in round 1 and got through after adjudication by Terif. BTW thanks to disorder and JJ for keeping it all going so far

Thanks to Reepicheep for a good game and regular play(I think we did cicrca. 103 turns). The game was very close for along tine and I found R. to be a very offensive minded player - the defence of France was excellent and my losses threatend me with palpatations! This slowed me a lot but retrospectively was balanced by the loss of a Free French threat later in the game. The turning point was probably the Allied attack on France at the start of Barbarossa. Becuase it was repulsed there was no credible threat in the West, especially as the US forces were then diverted to Rostov and the UK was spending all its mpp's on airpower around Moscow. This allowed me to push everything into Russia (where they were needed; my intial attack on Riga went laughably wrong). The high tech of the German inf plus their experience gave me a mini-steamroller, which although not very fast was chewing 2-3 units a turn, especially with the air superiority to finsh off. Things got a bit stickier with the Siberian transfer (another mistake, I got too close with too much)but the US forces in the south were collapsing and Sevastapol was coming on line as a port which would have allowed more flanking manoeuvre. The Italians were largely kept out of it (except for 4 airfleeets around Rostov/Sevastapol)but this was becuase they were tech-ing liking mad for a Sea Lion (possible at this late stage becuse the germans had naval superiority inc 2 tech 5 carriers and the Uk was clearly almosr empty). Learnt an awful lot - from R.'s good play and my mistakes!

Is this round over? If not when? Thanks

Terry (Axis) vs Reepicheep (Allies) - Christams 1941 Quick recap so far: Campaign started on track with Denmark, Poland and the Low Countries taken turn 2. The French proved far more of a problem with Reepicheep mounting an aggressive forward defense backed up by Commonwealth Carriers and Infantry. German losses were 3 Armour and 3 (or 4) Infantry. The defence took me by surprise as I've only played a few games and normally the French 'run for the UK' at the first sign of trouble. The Italians found the going easier - Greece quickly fell and a Commonwealth assault on the Italina Navy was aborted after early losses due to concentration of Italian airpower in the 'heel'. The French resistance meant that the conquest of Vichy (2 turns) and Spain (4 or maybe 5 turns was slow). Another trick here (that i hadn't seen before but all you hardcases probably use) was transferring the garrison at Gibraltar (which was about to get creamed) over North Africa. This delayed me further as I couldn't leave a possibe easy entry point for the Yanks. I'll remember that for the future as it does but a turn! In the meanwhile Norway was picked off and an airfleet for carrier exchange took place in the channel. The Axis advance in North Africa was slow because of the allied tactics and the main hinderance was lack of long range aircraft. Tech investment of 3 had yielded nothing but hey thats the way the game goes! It wasn't really possible to take out the 3 airfleets the UK had there so it was left to destroying allied shipping except for the carrier. Big strategic flaw as UK has Iraq. Barbarossa not stunning - the late entry gave 1800 to the Ruskies and the US already in the war. However, despite little geograhic movement the Russian casulties have been high and no Axis lost. UK and Free French operating in the Motherland and the less said about my luck against the UK and Russian airforce the better|! At same time Allies launched mini D-Day against Brest using 4 US Inf, 1 Canadian Army and 1 UK Corp. Supportd by the usual 5-6 battleships and a carrier. The idea was a good one to divert Axis from Russia but probably too large for a raid and too little for an invasion. The Canadian, UK corp and 2 US Armies were lost, along with the Carrier and a destroyer. Axis losses were confined to an Italian destroyer that intcerpted. Overall, I think the game is up for grabs at this point. Reepicheep has played a better Allied than I could and has bought time and Iraq; the UK and US have been bloodied and whittled to very little offensive power at this time. BTW what date does this round end? BTW the suggestion of 'viewable' playing is fine by me. It'll be like Pop Idol. Whose going to be Simon Caldwell?

Thanks to disrder and JJ for organising the tournament so far, and Terif for giving a very insightful adjuducation.

Thanks Terif. I've sent the last 2 turns with passwords. I'm quite happy for you to post your decision and observations direct to the Forum. Appreciate you taking the time to adjudicate.

Just a quick update on the game between disorder and myself. For off-field reasons we are having to cut the game short. However, rather than force a concession or limping along until the 45 day limit, we have jointly decided to forward the game to Terif for his judgement. We'll post his feedback in full, if it doesn't pop up here first.

They did escape and both sub packs were wiped out by the RAF which currently dominates the skies over Scotland. Marseilles falls to the Italians but Vichy Afica is reinforced by crack RAF squadrons which clear the Corsican skies of Italian kites, and allow the French Fleet to join with their RN brethern. According to the war report the Axis fleet now consists of 1 unit (a heavily armed dinghy). Yugoslavia holds out, following the brave French example. Churchill celebrates a free and strong Africa and invites his numerous Free French units to throw garlic at the dirty hun only 1 hex away across the Channel, while Mussolini is reduced to counting how many corps he has and how many turns it is before he can build anything else. Elsewhere, where is that Hitler going.......

Jusdt read through the threads as I've not been on for as while. 1) The view of deciding how unfinished games are tobe judged appears fair and considered. 2) I think the scenario is ok balanced, although US and Russian entry could be a tad higher at the start. 3) Hubert may well not be going to tweak SC1 anymore, but I'd rather he got on with SC2 to be honest. 4) And everyone's right - its just a game for fun (sometimes this is lost in all the posturing that goes on in the boards). Play silly tactics and see what happens (althogh I advise aginst the allies declaring war on Turkey as I recently did to see what happens!. Seek out new players and boldy lose like no one has before!