Transferring Ownership

[Bill101]

Currently (i.e. in SC1) when a country that started the game as neutral is liberated by the allies it will be placed under British control, with the British receiving all its MPPs.

It would be good to have the ability to transfer all liberated non-East European countries between the western allies. For example, Spain is liberated from the Germans and the allied player decides to put Spain under American control.

There should be limits to this, in that territory that was originally French or British cannot be handed over to another power, while East European states liberated by the Russians cannot be handed over to the western allies.

Another thing I'd like is that in a game I'm playing at the moment France has been liberated. Syria was never conquered by the Axis and I'd like to now transfer control of the country back to France. Can a feature allowing this be put into SC2?

Thanks.

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

Aha,yes ,I think I started a thread a while ago requesting for something alike.

Except I wasn't only talking about the liberated countries but about the conquered ones as well.

For example : Germany gets to Athens first,but you think Italy needs the MPP's more, so you want the territory to be under Italian control.

same can happen in the opposite direction,or with the allies.

[Bill101]

I've thought about the conquered countries too, but the worry is that the Axis player will give everything to Germany. This would considerably benefit the Axis overall as due to the better German HQs every MPP spent on German land and airforces is worth more than the equivalent spent on the Italians.

I like the system at the moment where you have to plan your conquests correctly beforehand, and occasionally I've been forced to give the country to Italy when I wanted Germany to have it, and vice versa.

I guess it depends on what the public demand is. If this is a simple programming task (providing such a thing exists!) then maybe these abilities could be added to the game options.

[Hubert Cater]

Bill

Good question, yes, there will be some changes in SC2 over what existed in SC1. As you've mentioned, in SC1 minor countries only had the option of either the UK as the Allied parent country or Germany as the Axis parent country, but with SC2 (using the editor) you will be able to set any minor country with any major Axis or Allied parent, i.e. UK, France, Usa, Ussr, Germany or Italy.

For example, if Benelux is set with France as the Allied parent and Germany as the Axis parent, then if the Axis declare war on Benelux it will become an Allied minor under France and vice versa if the Allies declare war.

For surrendering, the behaviour will be similar to what existed in SC1 but liberation can be slightly different. In SC2 there will also be a 'Cooperative' flag that will control just how friendly your allied countries really are. Using the Allies as an example, if the USSR is currently active and aligned with the Allies but it is not set to 'Cooperative' then any country the USSR liberates will default to the USSR regardless of the pre-existing parent.

For example, if Poland is set (initially) to a UK parent but is subsequently liberated by the USSR the new allied parent for Poland will become the USSR because the USSR is not a fully 'cooperative' ally of the Allies.

Nothing is fully set in stone of course but this should give you some insight as to what to expect

[JerseyJohn]

On the Axis side, I think if the U. K. falls, historically, it would have been Italy and not Germany that would have garrisoned and had control over Malta, Gibraltar and Egypt. Of course, in cases such as Egypt, Iraq and a few other countries they would almost certainly have been run by puppet governments -- with Egypt I think King Faruq would have remained but been an Italian puppet instead of Britain's.

Regarding the fear of players, as the Axis, transferring them all over to Germany, it's always seemed to me that it was better to also build Italy up and have it control the Mediteranean than to have Germany control everything.

Perhaps a factor on the number of countries a major nation can effectively control might help this with the size of the country (by number of cities) being a factor. With a system like that it might be beneficial for the Axis to delegate control of Mediteranean countries, with generally one or two cities each, to Italy, while Germany would be the only one capable of controlling conquered France, Britain and the USSR.

I wouldn't have a minimum and maximum, but a system where each can control a given number with maximum effectiveness and above that number of conquered cities/territory, their efficiency would dropp off and partisan activity would become more likely. It would be least effective for Italy to control Scandinavian countries and Germany to control those in North Africa and the Middle East.

[_onepercent]

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

For example, if Poland is set (initially) to a UK parent but is subsequently liberated by the USSR the new allied parent for Poland will become the USSR because the USSR is not a fully 'cooperative' ally of the Allies.

This is totally awesome!

This will be incentive for some very interesting powerstruggles between allied players! :cool:

[ October 23, 2004, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: _onepercent ]

[xwormwood]

In Clash of Steel some attacked nations changed alliances depending of the time (in 1940 turkey became british ally but if attacked in 1944 it bacame russian minor, same for the yugos).

[Agamemnon]

I would like to see something like Third Reich had where one allied country could give mmp's to it's ally. That way the US could give England mmp's or Germany could give Italy mmp's. Their was a limit but I don't remember what the limit was. I think it was 10% of the points a country got for a year. Their were only 4 turns per year though. You got all your mmp's for the year at one time.

[vveedd]

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

Bill

Good question, yes, there will be some changes in SC2 over what existed in SC1. As you've mentioned, in SC1 minor countries only had the option of either the UK as the Allied parent country or Germany as the Axis parent country, but with SC2 (using the editor) you will be able to set any minor country with any major Axis or Allied parent, i.e. UK, France, Usa, Ussr, Germany or Italy.

Here we go again. No hard feelings Hubert but I heard enough about editor. Let’s talk about original scenarios which big majority of us will play, I hope.

[Hubert Cater]

None taken

Original campaigns will of course be optimized (for playability, historical associations etc.) to take advantage of what the editor has to offer (as described above), after that the main idea of promoting the editing features is to show the power and flexibility that will be available to anyone that likes to tinker, create new campaigns, maps, worlds, almost anything you like. Think of it as a 2-in-1 promotion for what the SC2 package has to offer

[Feldtrompeter]

Since we talk about MPPs in here ...

I think it would reflect realtiy better if the resources and cities on the British isle go up to 8 MPPs each instead of only 5 MPPs once Germany has conquerred Britain.

I don't like the way it is now in SC about Britain when they surrender.

I don't see why the British would not have aided the German cause (via productivity) at least in the same magnitute as the French did.

The channel in itself is in my eyes no reason to deny Germany a better income from the British isle.

Hope my suggestion finds its way into SC2 .

FT

[Lars]

Originally posted by Agamemnon:

I would like to see something like Third Reich had where one allied country could give mmp's to it's ally. That way the US could give England mmp's or Germany could give Italy mmp's. Their was a limit but I don't remember what the limit was. I think it was 10% of the points a country got for a year. Their were only 4 turns per year though. You got all your mmp's for the year at one time.

There was also a rule for cooperative conquests, where the MPPs would be split among all the major countries that intervened when a minor fell. That might be a better way to go than having to time who captures the capital.

Of course, the ideal would be a popup where you could choose how to split them. In the case of Yugoslavia, for instance, maybe the Italians would want to give all the points to the Germans, split some percentage off, or keep them all. Would add a nice touch to the diplomatic game in multiplayer. Especially when the inevitable doublecross occurs.

[Edwin P.]

Of course, the ideal would be a popup where you could choose how to split them. In the case of Yugoslavia, for instance, maybe the Italians would want to give all the points to the Germans, split some percentage off, or keep them all. Would add a nice touch to the diplomatic game in multiplayer. Especially when the inevitable doublecross occurs.

Excellent, and don't forget the diplomatic effects of giving territory to another nation.

Germany giving Vichy Algeria to Italy would make Spain upset and Germany giving Vichy France to Spain would upset Italy.