Schoerner Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Treeburst155: ... Imagine what would happen if this squad were taking fire. It might go into suicide sneak mode. ... Treeburst155 out.Treeburst, thanks for your testing. Seems that the suicide-sneak-mode will be tweaked a little in v1.01 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve, i see you are reading this thread and therefore i'll take the opportunity to ask the chief directly, if there is a hope, that the auto-sneak moving-directions will be reworked/adjusted? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- answer: There will be some tweaks in 1.01, but nothing major. As has been covered in the previous discussions about this subject, there is more than one opinion about how it behaves and why. This is not a black and white issue. However, we do agree that some tweaking was worth trying. Steve Taken from this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=002970;p=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: You may be misinterpreting what that state is intended to model, at least in this case. I don't think that "panicked" means that the troops are in a state of hysteria so much as that due to the hastiness of the order and their execution of it, they are presently in a disorganized condition and it will take a minute or two to get them straightened out and functioning as a unit again. Which would seem quite reasonable to me. MichaelI think this is very true, and maybe it is the key to the debate about infantry behaviour, and various misunderstandings. In the manual, if you read it carefully, the definition of 'Panicked' status doesn't describe a real panic, but only a self-preservation attitude (hence ignoring the orders). The word 'Panicked' is an overstatement and is not really appropriate here. I'm not native english speaker, but there must be a better vocable to define the status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: [...] also global morale must be considered. I don't think so. The global moral does not have an impact on the loss of moral, just on moral gain. At least that's how it was in CMBO according to Steve. I don't think this has been changed in CMBB. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tabpub: As heard at "Frozen Chosun"..."Hell, no, we're not retreating!! We're just attacking in a different direction!" Name the Marine General for a Kewpie doll."Chesty" Puller. Should I send you instructions on where to send my doll? Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: [...] also global morale must be considered. I don't think so. The global moral does not have an impact on the loss of moral, just on moral gain. At least that's how it was in CMBO according to Steve. I don't think this has been changed in CMBB. Dschugaschwili</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I think one thing going on here is that panic is not an entirely accurate word for what really happens in CMBB. It is actually a state where the unit has gone into a mode to do whatever it needs to survive. I have even seen paniced tanks take out multiple targets. So panicing while withdrawing makes sense, since the unit is not really under command and control. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Your worded it better than me WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 Seanachai, I have had most of the past week off work so I've finally had the time to dig into just how CMBB works. I WAS a fan of the "withdraw" order, so changes in that area interest me. Rather than actually play the AI to learn how things work, I cut to the chase and just test things out quickly. The learning process is quicker and more efficient that way. As people post things they notice through play, I test these things to see what the deal is. I have no opinion on the "goodness" of the changes to the withdraw order. I just want to know what I can expect when I issue that order. On the "AI Cheats" thread I was not trying to prove the AI does, or does not cheat. I was simply interested in the truth of the matter. Treeburst155 out. [ November 05, 2002, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Yeah. Treeburst is being cool. Don't bug him. Otherwise...me and the boys may have to come and pay you a visit. Know what I mean? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 In the case of CDIC's spotter, the disturbing thing is that, had the building been fired on, the spotter team would likely have perished. They would have done so as a direct result of the withdraw order. For this reason I think the withdraw order should only be used when a unit is likely to die (or at least break) anyway in the coming turn. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 No matter, even if we discount global moral, should a unit panic when not under fire just because you tell him to withdraw? (Read get the hell outta there if you so wish) The spotter in question quickly panicked, turned to run downstairs but due to his panicked state he began to sneak (Crawl), by the time he reached the ground floor he was exhausted and had turned to "Broken" state. It is now turn 5 of that PBEM, he is still exhausted, still on the ground floor of that building and in a state of panic, yet not a single shot has been fired in the entire battle. All the time he is in command of a HQ unit. In MHO, i think this is not correct. Like i said before, units under fire? No problem, i can accept that. But it looks like there are some circumstances where the new withdraw command needs a wee tweak. All the best CDICObviously this IS a problem and needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSword Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Agree, if it happens it must be a very rare ocurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Nudge......bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrewolf Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 hmmm I was able to use withdraw to my advantage one time to regroup my men. They were heavily under fire and scattered all over (it was one of those mission in heavy snow with limited visibility). They are pretty much useless, any order I gave them will took more than a turn to execute. So i just gave them mass order to withdraw toward my tanks in the rear. Due to the limited visibility the enemy has not seen my tanks and gave chase and was one by one targeted by my tank. I lost many men during the withdrawal but at least I managed to get a counterattack going near the end instead of being stucked and waiting to be overruned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 7, 2002 Author Share Posted November 7, 2002 Yep, that's the right situation for a withdraw order, when all is lost anyway. I'm glad it works out sometimes. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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