Does any one use Lmg?

[mg42 gunner]

Lets face it machine guns are way underpowered and the light ones are even worse has someone found a way to effictlvy use a light machine gun in attacking or defending . To make them have a more appeling factor they should be able to jog or fast walk that would be better.

[Redwolf]

I liked playing squads with several MGs in-squad, and I like squads with long-range firepower. So I tried to build superplatoons by choosing infantry squads with just one MG in-squad and then attaching several LMGs.

I thought I would get the same or more firepower, but distributed to more units. That would mean more robustness due to more targets, and it would mean I can fire from more varied angles (remember that CMBO infantry is much more robust from front and gets in real trouble if shot at from different angles). I thought that while LMGs die easily on their own, they would be quite robust when operating closely with "their" squad, like if they belong to them.

However, LMGs are just too fragile, even when operating closely with others. They just die too easily and the LMG is lost, whereas the squad passes the LMG when men fall. Plus they cost more victory points per dead man than squads's men. I get clobbered by artillery, StuHs or Priests often, so I stopped doing this.

[WWB]

Well, they have a number of uses from a scenario design point of view:

1) Local security elements for ATGs, IGs, etc. Every source I have read indicates that there was usually an MG or 2 about to keep the squishies at bay.

2) Simulating depleted platoons. Such as a 1x HQ, 2x Mot Squad, 2x LMG to simulate an understrength Motorized Platoon.

WWB

[Abn_Ranger87]

If you want fire-power, go with Sturm-geewhiz-whatever their called or Falshirmjaeger squads. Both have 2 LMGs and can be devestating during mid-range engagements. Machine guns teams function well when employed in the supporting role. A pair of them can easily route a platoon if positioned carefully with good fields of fire and time to get set in.

[Sarge Saunders]

I end up getting one LMG almost every time. What else can you do with that extra 10 points left over?

Besides that, if you want more punch buy motorized "Heer" squads instead of regular. They come 10 men instead of nine for two LMGs per squad. Makes for good troops.

The idea of attaching extra LMGs to a "super-platoon" sounds good and reminds me of the American Paratrooper Platoon OOB in CMBO. They sport extra 3-man MMG teams (but tend to run out of ammo too soon).

So be sure and buy infantry that carries the 2 LMGs and you'll have the firepower you want for a better price.

[Redwolf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sarge Saunders:

I end up getting one LMG almost every time. What else can you do with that extra 10 points left over?

<hr></blockquote>

Upgrade a Schreck to veteran.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

Besides that, if you want more punch buy motorized "Heer" squads instead of regular. They come 10 men instead of nine for two LMGs per squad. Makes for good troops.

<hr></blockquote>

I know the options and in fact I like infantry with plenty of MP44 most.

The problem with 2 LMGs in a squad is that it is pretty expensive (both at purchase time and in victory points when hit), and that they tend to drop one LMG when taking casualities, whereas a single LMG doesn't get dropped that easily.

Also, my experiment was more like 9-10 LMGs overall per platoon, that means even more than 2 per squad which came from LMG teams.

They were devastating, but also fragile, kinda like the Nashorn and Hummel. I mainly had to drop the scheme mainly because of artillery, since LMGs can't run and won't get out of the impact area when the spotting rounds appear. And as I said, the LMG is gone faster than the squad ones.

Another issue is bad weather, I play in all weather, not just sunshine or overcast. Infantry is more fragile in low visibility and/or heavy ground, which multiplies all these problems.

[Col Deadmarsh]

In a QB, their only real worth would be to guard flanks. Usually I'd rather have 1 HMG as opposed to 2 LMG's, but when guarding flanks you need 2 mg's for crossfire in case an enemy rushes you.

[Andrew H.]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redwolf:

I liked playing squads with several MGs in-squad, and I like squads with long-range firepower. So I tried to build superplatoons by choosing infantry squads with just one MG in-squad and then attaching several LMGs.

<hr></blockquote>

I tried the "super platoon" idea, too, generally adding two LMGs to regular platoon. I called it an "assault platoon."

Like your experience, it was not that successful. It added a little bit of firepower to squads, but it slowed the squads down quite a bit, and the LMGs were very fragile.

[Sledge59]

They can be handy as decoys. Set them up to fire first and draw arty fire while your real forces get into position. The AI will identify them as "infantry?" unless your opponent gets too close. And before anybody asks, yes, this is gamey!

[gredeker]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sledge59:

They can be handy as decoys. Set them up to fire first and draw arty fire while your real forces get into position. The AI will identify them as "infantry?" unless your opponent gets too close. And before anybody asks, yes, this is gamey!<hr></blockquote>

Doesn't sound terribly gamey to me - it sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to use them on attack.

On defense, you can use them to drive your opponent to attack where you want and/or make him waste a bunch of arty or DF HE trying to take them out. At long to medium range, a LMG looks and feels like a HMG, and you can buy three times as many of the LMG as the HMG.

Example:

Imagine, as an attacker, that you have to cross open ground. When your scouts break from cover and run across, suddenly what looks like six machine guns open up. Most people's reaction will be one of three - avoid the area and try to flank it; sit tight and start a firefight (with defenders in foxholes/woods, buildings, etc.); or call in the heavy firepower to blast the area to smithereens. Whatever happens, you're causing the attacker to REACT to your setup. He'll either avoid the area and head toward another area (where you've hopefully deployed your main force), waste a lot of time in a firefight, or waste a lot of firepower taking out this decoy force.

Will this always work? No.

Will you sometimes lose that LMG position to a well-coordinated attack? Yes, and that's why that FO you have behind the lines is looking at that big fat TRP in the middle of your group of LMGs...

Is it another trick to pull out of your hat and keep your opponent guessing? You betcha.

[JasonC]

If you want LMG firepower and mobility you buy Pz Gdrs (or FJ, if you also want the schreck, mortar FOs, etc). The SS ones are a little more nasty than the Heer, as they have one extra MP44 per squad, in place of a rifle.

You can split them into half-squads if you want small machinegun nests. They are much more effective than LMG teams, withstand fire better, have more ammo, and very important have enough close in firepower to defend themselves. LMGs alone get run over by any squad moving within about 100 yards of them, and beyond that distance do not have sufficient firepower for anything other than annoyance sniping and deception. (And annoyance sniping is better done with sharpshooters).

If you need heavy supporting firepower, take the HMG teams not the LMGs. They have three times the firepower for three times the cost, so you lose nothing on that score. But you also pick up four times the ammo for free, which is extremely important for ranged firepower.

Ranged firepower only achieves its effect - which is more often pinning than killing, incidentally - by repeated shots over sustained periods. LMGs can't do this because they don't have the ammo for it, and rarely last long enough to expend even what they do have.

Also, an HMG team will keep firing until the last man with full firepower, and is much harder to suppress than a 2-man team. The only downside of the HMG team is that it is slow. On the attack this matters if the enemy adopts a "back" or "reverse slope" defense. If he is forward, the HMGs have the range to mess him up without needing foot speed.

A trick to make them useful if or when a defender goes to a back deployment is to keep them in pairs near your supporting AFVs, and ride them forward to better firing positions. But only do this right at the start (to locations the enemy can't reach or see - e.g. in meeting engagements), or after all visible enemies have been hosed - never just to close the range.

For speed use LMG squads, for range use HMG teams. SMG infantry is another arm as well, and an SMG + HMG combination can cover the range windows as effectively as 2 LMG squads, often without drawing as much artillery on the infantry and with better ammo efficiency.

But the German LMGs aren't good for anything except deception work. Their usefulness there is still limited, because you can have a half-squad for the price of two of them, and the half squad can do things besides deception. LMGs also tend to deceive only for a short period, because they die soon.

Half squads also have fausts, which can be very useful in a "stay behind detail" meant for deception purposes. A platoon HQ (with good ? skill) and 2 half-squads, with a schreck optional, is a better stay behind detail than LMGs. Give the other squads in that platoon to your company HQ, along with a support weapon or two, and have him function as an additional front line platoon.

[CMplayer]

Use them like this on defence: Buy several and set them up as pickets, inside expected enemy covered routes of advance. Put TRPs _right on top of_ the LMGs. Buy 120mm mortars.

I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

They are useful as pickets in other situations as well, just a pair of eyes you can put out in the terrain somewhere.

[edited to add that they should be given a hide order]

[edited again to mention that if your 'support' points are maxed out, an assault boat will work about as well]

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: CMplayer ]</p>

[LGMB]

Soldiers,

I just realized that my member number is the lowest here...hehe. :eek:

[MrPeng]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lord General MB:

Soldiers,

I just realized that my member number is the lowest here...hehe. :eek: <hr></blockquote>

Not so fast, hosebag.

Mine is lower.

and just to chuck in my $1.87, I have to agree with them wot say the lmg is too fragile for it's cost. I have never had much luck with them on D, and they do tend to slow an advance down. I do like the one formation that you can buy, I think its a security hw company or something that comes with a platoon of infantry, 3x75 mm AT guns, 4x20 mm FlaK and a bunch of LMGs as the local support for the guns. Always seem to get my but kicked with that formation but have plenty of fun setting up with it. Hope springs eternal.

And my Member number is STILL lower than LGMBs! HAR!

Peng

[LGMB]

Soldiers,

Well now that Peng has spoiled the moment, I might aswell add something useful. All machine guns are worthless, durring any sort of advance. I'd buy shreks. MG's are useful once mounted on a halftrack :evilgodlesslime:, or an AFV.