Pzman Posted July 29, 2001 Share Posted July 29, 2001 Now I have to say that I really liked WildBills Aachen battle but after looking at 1944 maps of the city all I can say is Bill how could your map be so wrong! Anyway I used this map and re created the battle... on a more accuret map. The force may not be right because all I could find out was that it was the 26th American Infantry division. If you have any info on units in Aachen send them my way. If you want a peek at it send me a line. I would like a full AAR...please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindseye Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Try this site, might be something there? http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/2422/france.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindseye Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Division Composition 101st Infantry 104th Infantry 328th Infantry 26th Reconnaissance Troop (Mechanized) 101st Engineer Combat Battalion 114th Medical Battalion . 26th Division Artillery 101st Field Artillery Battalion (105mm Howitzer) 102d Field Artillery Battalion (105mm Howitzer) 263d Field Artillery Battalion (105mm Howitzer) 180th Field Artillery Battalion (155mm Howitzer) . Special Troops 726th Ordnance Light Maintenance Company 26th Quartermaster Company 39th Signal Company Military Police Platoon Headquarters Company Band -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachments Antiaircraft Artillery 390th AAA AW Bn (SP) 14 Oct 44-25 May 45 Armored Co E, 33d Armd Regt (3d Armd Div) 11 Oct 44-22 Oct 44 3d Bn, 33d Armd Regt (3d Armd Div) 15 Oct 44-22 Oct 44 37th Tk Bn (4th Armd Div) 17 Oct 44-26 Oct 44 761st Tk Bn 29 Oct 44-12 Dec 44 735th Tk Bn 21 Dec 44-25 Jan 45 778th Tk Bn 29 Jan 45-16 Feb 45 Co C, 778th Tk Bn 16 Feb 45-8 Mar 45 Co B, 778th Tk Bn 11 Mar 45-18 Mar 45 778th Tk Bn 19 Mar 45-20 Jul 45 Cavalry 2d Cav Gp 12 Oct 44-22 Nov 44 Chemical Co A, 81st Cml Mort Bn 15 Oct 44-25 Oct 44 Cos A&B, 3d Cml Mort Bn 22 Dec 44-25 Jan 45 Co D, 81st Cml Mort Bn 29 Jan 45-20 Feb 45 Co A, 81st Cml Mort Bn 29 Jan 45-7 Mar 45 Co C, 91st Cml Mort Bn 7 Mar 45-12 Apr 45 97th Cml Mort Bn (- Co 12 Apr 45-13 Apr 45 Co B, 97th Cml Mort Bn 13 Apr 45-14 Apr 45 Engineer 249th Engr C Bn 22 Dec 44-25 Jan 45 1152d Engr C Gp 30 Jan 45-7 Mar 45 1258th Engr C Bn 28 Feb 45-7 Mar 45 179th Engr C Bn 1 Mar 45-7 Mar 45 Infantry 51st Armd Inf Bn (4th Armd Div) 19 Nov 44-29 Nov 44 5th Ranger Inf Bn 29 Jan 45-9 Feb 45 359th CT (90th Div) 6 Apr 45-10 Apr 45 Tank Destroyer 704th TD Bn (SP) 14 Oct 44-26 Oct 44 691st TD Bn (T) 15 Oct 44-7 Dec 44 602d TD Bn (SP) 23 Oct 44-12 Dec 44 610th TD Bn (SP) 12 Nov 44-12 Dec 44 818th TD Bn (SP) 21 Dec 44-20 Jul 45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Detachments (Attached to) Cavalry 26th Rcn Tr 2d Cav Gp 7 Oct 44-12 Oct 44 Infantry 328th Inf 80th Div 2 Oct 44-15 Oct 44 1st Bn, 328th Inf 4th Armd Div 6 Dec 44-8 Dec 44 3d Bn, 101st Inf 94th Div 23 Feb - 24 Feb 45 2d Bn, 101st Inf 5th Div 23 Mar 45-24 Mar 45 104th Inf 4th Armd Div 24 Mar 45-26 Mar 45 328th Inf 4th Armd Div 26 Mar 45-28 Mar 45 328th CT 11th Armd Div 3 May 45-6 May 45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assignment and Attachment to higher units Date Corps Army Army Group Assigned Attached Assigned Attached 24 Aug 44 Ninth ETOUSA 28 Aug 44 Ninth 12th 5 Sep 44 III Ninth 12th 28 Sep 44 (-) Third 12th 1 Oct 44 XII Third 12th 12 Dec 44 III Third 12th 28 Jan 45 XX Third 12th 23 Mar 45 XII Third 12th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 30, 2001 Author Share Posted July 30, 2001 Thanks for the info bindseye! One problem the battle is not at Regimental level [ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Wow, you said there were a lot of troops, but... uh...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAttacker Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 First of all I must say I enjoy Wild Bills Aachen. Second did you ask Wild Bill what Part of Aachen Battle he was trying to do with battle? I believe it to be accuarte for the few streets his scenario has on it.. It gives you the feel of the tactics that were involved. It is short and sweet. Finally, There are many first person accounts of the battle and if you are too lazy to go look for them then why even try to do a scenario? Have you tried a Scenario called "Knockem All Down" you will find it at Manx's site.. It is one of the many Battles of Aachen.. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GonzoAttacker: First of all I must say I enjoy Wild Bills Aachen. Second did you ask Wild Bill what Part of Aachen Battle he was trying to do with battle? I believe it to be accuarte for the few streets his scenario has on it.. It gives you the feel of the tactics that were involved. It is short and sweet. Finally, There are many first person accounts of the battle and if you are too lazy to go look for them then why even try to do a scenario? Have you tried a Scenario called "Knockem All Down" you will find it at Manx's site.. It is one of the many Battles of Aachen.. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I Agree with you 100%, Michael, for what its worth. Panzerman is just a young kid, though, so you must have patience with him. F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 30, 2001 Author Share Posted July 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GonzoAttacker: First of all I must say I enjoy Wild Bills Aachen. Second did you ask Wild Bill what Part of Aachen Battle he was trying to do with battle? I believe it to be accuarte for the few streets his scenario has on it.. It gives you the feel of the tactics that were involved. It is short and sweet. Finally, There are many first person accounts of the battle and if you are too lazy to go look for them then why even try to do a scenario? Have you tried a Scenario called "Knockem All Down" you will find it at Manx's site.. It is one of the many Battles of Aachen.. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Its not that I am lazy I have several books but they fail to say what type of units... so get off me. What I have done is the same area of battle but one a larger scale. I found some info its just that the Liberary in my area dosn't have many WW2 books and most of them our out of my price range to buy. :mad: Sorry if I don't meat your 100% perfection club. [ 07-30-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 First of all, the division involved was not the 26th Infantry Division. It was the 1st Division, 26th Infantry Regiment. Second of all here is some online reading you can do to learn about the battle, recently published by a colonel of the 26th Infantry Regiment: http://cpof.ida.org/MOUT-Aachen-1944.pdf The context of the paper is from the perspective of lessons learned to be applied to modern urban combat. Third of all, here is a list of publications, all under $20, which deal with battles of the 26th "Blue Spaders". You are interested in the "Aachen" title and the "Stolberg" title. http://www.bluespader.org/bsbooks.html The internet is a wonderous tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 31, 2001 Author Share Posted July 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keith: First of all, the division involved was not the 26th Infantry Division. It was the 1st Division, 26th Infantry Regiment. Second of all here is some online reading you can do to learn about the battle, recently published by a colonel of the 26th Infantry Regiment: http://cpof.ida.org/MOUT-Aachen-1944.pdf The context of the paper is from the perspective of lessons learned to be applied to modern urban combat. Third of all, here is a list of publications, all under $20, which deal with battles of the 26th "Blue Spaders". You are interested in the "Aachen" title and the "Stolberg" title. http://www.bluespader.org/bsbooks.html The internet is a wonderous tool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Did I say division... maybe thats why the web page that that guy gave was no help. [ 07-30-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldmarshall Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 You might try books like IF YOU SURVIVE by George Wilson...and I have a book around my house somewhere called SIEGFRIED LINE--1944, it has a whole section on the Aachen breakthrough, but I cant find it anywhere--must be in the attic, I hope its still in print if I have it still.... -Fieldmarshall(I suggest looking for those books, I cant be exact on the title of Siegfried line--1944, it was very simaler to that but like I say I havent seen that book in five years, I will rummage through the attic see what I can find and get back to you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldmarshall Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Nevermind FOUND IT!!! Its called WEST WALL September 1944 to March 1945--It is written by: Charles Whiting--Its still in print(A new version is published, or I have had the book less time than I remember, I suggest you look at www.amazon.com -Fieldmarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 31, 2001 Author Share Posted July 31, 2001 Thanks FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAttacker Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 I am sorry if I offended you, perfection is not me... Here is some books you can reference to.. Also I suggest going to Library and ask Reference Desk for some help for some good searches, I am sure there is many magazine articles availble.. Also most librarys have kind of Share book system and maybe visit a local college..Finally My personal library is stocked with used books about the ETO as well as my best friend's library and we exchange books all the time. We get some good books for 25% of the cost. I do have a little advantage that I go to my colleges library and have all the Official Histories to check out.. "Bloody Aachen", short easy read not too detailed.. "West Wall". pretty good some details left out. "Closing with the Enemy" very good description of action that finally broke the back of Germans.. Basis for "Knockem All Down" scenario and happens to be rally cry of 26th Regiment.. I am willing to playtest for you so send me map... can offer some experience... if you like I will send you "Knockem All Down" too..Or just download from Manx's site. Never give up on what you want to do or your concepts in scenario design.. Nobody is perfect and I would the first to say so.. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GonzoAttacker: I am willing to playtest for you so send me map... can offer some experience... if you like I will send you "Knockem All Down" too..Or just download from Manx's site. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Panzerman, What Michael can't in modesty say is that "KnockemAll Down" is a really excellent and large scale representation of basically half of the Aachen battle. He focuses on the left wing of the American attack, featuring the 2nd Battalion, 26th Infantry Reg. There may not be much point in trying to duplicate this outstanding effort. It might make more sense to focus on the right wing of the attack, through a series of factories and aiming toward a dominating hill with a park, led by the 3rd Battalion, 26 Inf Reg. Or you might consider starting with a small and managable part of the fight. In any case, if you get beyond a reinforced Battalion, CM just becomes unmanagable--for the player-- so do consider your intended scale. Aside from the other sources mentioned, you might try looking at Charles MacDonald's excellent "The Siegfried Line Campaign" in the official "US Army in WWII: ETO" series--which is my current source of information. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 31, 2001 Author Share Posted July 31, 2001 Thanks for the help. I am working on what the 3d Infantry battalion did. So no problem there. I do what to look at a better map as the one I have only shows major streets. But have a look at what I have put together Gonzo and any tips would be mach appreciated. Did map the entire city center so I can model any part of the battle... maybe even copy it and make it into an operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Check out the Aachen department of tourism, or travel books. While the city was flattened, the street pattern remains in most places. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAttacker Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 You could even cut up your map and do all the seperate battles... If you know the shortcuts to cut up a map you should be able to cut and save each part of the map and run battles that will be supported by the excellent use of CMBO and BN size or smaller.. We have found out that there is two types of players against AI...Those who like BIG OOBs and play AI over Days...and those Who like to to play AI in short games that are magable 30 turns or less.. OF course there are those that love a great DBL Blind Scenario for PBEM/ TCP/IP in both sizes above... I have not recieved your map yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 31, 2001 Author Share Posted July 31, 2001 Its the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 2, 2001 Author Share Posted August 2, 2001 I have started modifying the map... I will send them out when I get back from my road trip. Cya all later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GonzoAttacker: It is short and sweet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> & sweaty too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 More importantly, WIld Bill, how could you leave the band out??? Geez! p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 19, 2001 Author Share Posted August 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peterk: More importantly, WIld Bill, how could you leave the band out??? Geez! p.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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