coldmeter Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I eventually decided to play the russain side in CMBB just to saee what it was like. I picked both sides units just for the fun of it. I gave myself 5 T-34(late) up against 4 Tigers along with the usual support elements. The terrain was fairly hilly and I used it well to sneak up behind 2 tigers and it seemed like my ambush was going to work. I sent 2 T-34's in directly behind 2 tigers from a distance of 70 metres thinking this must be a kill, but once the tigers spotted me my tank commanders got jumpy and started to reverse out of there. Anyone have any ways of making sure your commanders follow the job through? (Tank Commanders were regular) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Originally posted by coldmeter: I eventually decided to play the russain side in CMBB just to saee what it was like. I picked both sides units just for the fun of it. I gave myself 5 T-34(late) up against 4 Tigers along with the usual support elements. The terrain was fairly hilly and I used it well to sneak up behind 2 tigers and it seemed like my ambush was going to work. I sent 2 T-34's in directly behind 2 tigers from a distance of 70 metres thinking this must be a kill, but once the tigers spotted me my tank commanders got jumpy and started to reverse out of there. Anyone have any ways of making sure your commanders follow the job through? (Tank Commanders were regular)Put small arms fire on the Tigers to button them before your T34s get LOS. End result will be 2 KO'd Tigers. [ December 10, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrewolf Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 put them on a flat terrain so that the T34 commander realize that no matter how he reverse the tiger still got LOS on him. Hopefully that will convince him to actually fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 There has been much discussion about this (understatement). First off, sending those two T-34's on such a mission is tantamount to suicide. And as soon as the Tiger sees the Russian vehicles and starts to target them, the AI operating the T-34's recognizes this and responds accordingly (gets the hell outta there). Now, you are probably thinking, "but that's how the Russians did it!" To an extent, yes. But, they would not do so in isolation. What I mean is that in most instances there would be other units supporting this endeavor. ATR or light guns, for example, may open fire to button the Tigers, thereby reducing their ability to target the onrushing T-34s. Smoke may be used so as to impede the ability of the Tigers to target the Russian tanks. Similarly, a HE barrage may be called down on the German positions just as the T-34s are to get into positions (difficult to do though because of the fire delays involved with Russian arty). Finally, the Russians may "demonstrate" with other tanks to the German front, thereby occupying the Tigers. Remember, having multiple firing angles is just as important as engaging from the proper range. The point is, the tactical AI will often interject self-preservation manuevers if it believes that the risk warrants such behavior. To keep this from happening, you need to support such flanking manuevers as much as possible. If you can limit the Tigers' ability to target your tanks, you increase the likelihood your tanks will(successfully) execute their orders. Similarly, using shoot-n-scoot tactics in which the exposure is limited also helps greatly--use the speed and mobility of the T-34 to put it into positions it can succeed, not to just close in for the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I sent 2 T-34's in directly behind 2 tigers from a distance of 70 metres thinking this must be a kill, but once the tigers spotted me my tank commanders got jumpy and started to reverse out of there. Even in the Rear a Tiger still has over 80mm of armor, and the expected penetration of the 76mm gun is under 90 at 100m. You did good - you're not going to get a much better shot... But the tank commanders may have been smart to back away - most. esp. if the angles were unfavorable to the T-34s. (Which is something that can be difficult for the player to judge but that the TacAI crews are pretty good at.) 2 suprised Tigers vrs. 2 ready T-34s at 70m and things still don't look very good for the T-34s. Geesh, gamey German tank designers! FEAR the Tiger, fear it! It would be nice if you could instruct crews that this is the best chance they're going to get... but you can't. If the crews had stayed they would have been betting they could neutralize both Tigers before the turrets came around and - this is what I'd be thinking if I were in the T-34 - blew the Russians away in 1 shot each. The T-34s would need to not only hit each Tiger... I think they could do that before the Tigers fired, though the T-34 ROF isn't exactly spectacular, but they also need to KO or disable German tanks... and that's pretty dicy. So, yeah, as other posters explained, there are quite a few things you can do to distract the Tigers, and hopefully you can bring more than even numerical Armor odds against 'em. Try this... say "I'm going to take this pair of 76mm T-34s and sneak up on the two Tigers." And then say "I'm going to take this platoon of 76mm T-34s and sneak up on the two Tigers as I use other fire to button and otherwise distract them." Pretend you're in one of the T-34 crews, and See which sounds better to you, and how much so. [ December 10, 2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Tarqulene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I successfully maneuvered my Lend-Lease Sherman M4A2(?) to within FIVE FEET of a Tiger I's tail recently. The tankers were brave men, but unfortunately all died a firey death. Don't blame the AI if it chooses to live another day instead of following your orders. Really, that was your FIRST TIME playing the Russians? You have GOT to try a heavy KV flamethrower tank in city fighting!!!!!!! [ December 10, 2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 In short, coldmeter, in the situation you describe, you were asking an awful lot of your T-34s. You might want to try setting up a similar situation with Pz. IVs on the German side instead of Tigers. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Tigers.... -fearful shudder- I suppose trying shoot'n'scoot from two different directions against a tiger is one way to try and maximise your chances of surviving to take a shot (That slow turret rotation is a real drawback on the kitties) Or try and lure them into driving through 'scattered trees' We all know how well Tiger tanks get on with those pesky squirrels putting acorns in the track links and making them bog down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Originally posted by Quintus: Or try and lure them into driving through 'scattered trees' We all know how well Tiger tanks get on with those pesky squirrels putting acorns in the track links and making them bog down...Finnish squirrels, no doubt. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I have nothing to contribute; I just love the title of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Tigers.... -fearful shudder- I suppose trying shoot'n'scoot from two different directions against a tiger is one way to try and maximise your chances of surviving to take a shot (That slow turret rotation is a real drawback on the kitties) If the lines of sight are short, you might try a trick I used to pull on occasion in CC against a lone Tiger - I suspect it might work in CMBB, though you could be in deep s#!t if your lead tank tried to beat feat. Basically, run circles around it! The T-34 should be quick enough. Unfortunately, you still have to have something that can penetrate, but at very close range the T-34/76 just might do it (numbers, anyone?). You might be better off going home and drinking vodka until the T-34/85s show up, or maybe SU-152s. The first time I tried this in CC, it was with a Stuart followed by two M-10s, with engagement ranges limited by terrain to about 100 m (yes, it was bad placement of the Tiger, IMO, but let's not go there right now). The Tiger tried to track the Stuart, and was caught with its pants down when the M-10s showed up. Worked beautifully, with no losses. Sometime I'm going to have to set up a little scenario like that in CMBB to play with and see if it works here. It would certainly be harder because of command delays, but I think it ought to work. It's possible that the T-34/76 just isn't up to the task, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Basically, run circles around it! The T-34 should be quick enough. Unfortunately, you still have to have something that can penetrate I've done this in CMBO with Grayhounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 It does work, but you have to set lots of waypoints and if you do that then you will probably be sitting for 2 minutes waiting for the tank commander to understand his orders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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