Maxx

Put small arms fire on the Tigers to button them before your T34s get LOS. End result will be 2 KO'd Tigers. [ December 10, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

Cable.

Thank you panzermartin.

Yeah, it's 'McPaper', but hey, wide demographic + lotsa eyeballs. http://www.usatoday.com/

LOL

Played as partisans vs. the AI and spanked him, so perhaps tweaking might be necessary. I sent you some info Rune. I'm afraid vs. a human (Panzer Leader) it's gonna be tough going. I have all conscripts (partisans) and I believe he has mostly regulars. Plus he has big (BIG!) assault vehicles. Gonna give it my best shot though If only MasterGoodale were here for guidance, I would feel more confident. :mad: :mad: :mad: [ December 05, 2002, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

In my opinion the Russian strength is in the mobility of their armor. This translates as faster speed and less chance of bog in scattered woods. Looking for nice hull down postions to face off with German armor simply doesnt work (with T34s) as you will lose most frontal engagements. Playing the Russians is much like playing the Americans in France. It's vital to close with the enemy armor, within 300m if possible, by using terrain to probe deep and flank. This is the Russian strength. In 1943, you can get 3 T34/76s for each Panther or Tiger the GE player buys. In 1944, you can get ~2 T34/85s per. I've spent most of my time in CMBB honing this skill, as I can't find any better one to win. The Russians also have a very cheap (~30 pts) 45mmL66 AT weapon that can take out GE cats with side shots (at 800m+), and these have become my main frontal AT defense. Hidden until the targeted vehicle turns to engage the T34 approaching his flank. Seems difficult to win with the Soviets at first, but by playing as them regularly, I believe you become a better overall player.

I wouldn't make the assumption that hunt is best. Looks like it falls within the 'noise' of the statistics to me. Especially 'move' versus 'hunt'.

If I fail as the Partisans, we could always lobby our best player on the forum, MasterGoodale, to play as them. I know he has the ability to heat up the TNT to a molten state, and fling hot lead at those SS baddies. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Me too, but I prefer to play partisan BTW that's a good point about Masada Rune, and a better comparison. [ December 04, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

But Armdchair, those villagers of My Lai weren't armed, nor were the US soldiers at Malmedy.. nor the union soldiers at Andersonville prison etc. The difference here is Warsaw had semi-military (militia?) units out to aggressively kill Germans. As such, it could/should be modeled, in my opinion.

I vote for releasing it. As long as it isn't a predetermined total rout, one could argue it honors those Poles/Jews who said 'enough' and took up arms. It also might draw attention and recognition to what happened for those of us who aren't familiar with the history. In that sense, it would be a good thing.

I would only add that the majority of the immobilized Tigers in the scattered tree tests did so within the first 150-200m. Of course I'm not complaining, but as I always play Soviet, my new (and really fun!) tactic is to try and pull the GE AI (or human) armor through non-clear terrain tiles especially if he has heavy armor. I haven't run the tests on the King Tiger, but I can say it seems to have at least the same results as the tiger, perhaps it's even worse (better ).

I've found sharpshooters work well. One or two shots can rout 'em and make the crews abandon the gun. Even at extreme ( > 550m) range. [ December 04, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

Thanks, Maxx. Here's another interesting test: Make a map, about (IIRC) 1200 wide and 1k deep. Cover the map with the terrain of your choice. (Dry, flat and all Scattered Trees, for example.) Take 50 tanks of your choice. All the same tank. Line them up along the edge of the map, with a little space between the first 25 and the second 25. Plonk down a stationary enemy unit somplace. Make the "scenario" 40+ turns long and save it. Start a game using the map and units. Tell one group of 25 tanks to head straight acrosss the map using "Fast", another using "Move"... or whatever movement orders you want to check out. When you're done you'll what looks like a nice little graph, each Immobilized tank a point on this graph, showing how far it went before becoming Immobilized. It'll be easy to see how the move types compare. Use more tanks for more accuracy.</font>

I've combined all the tests here. This is over an 800m test track. 50 iterations per tank. Your mileage may vary. Thank you Eden Smallwood for the formatting code. This table shows percent of tanks that IMMOBILIZED due to bog. </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> T34/76 T34/85 MkIVJ Panther Tiger -------------------------------------------------------- Clr damp fast 2% 0% 4% 4% 6% SW damp fast 20% 42% 66% 54% 100% Clr damp move 2% 2% 2% 2% 16% SW damp move 14% 32% 56% 54% 100% Clr damp hunt 2% 2% 2% 4% 12% SW damp hunt 6% 26% 56% 42% 100% Clr WET fast 2% 0% 16% 14% 78% </pre>

Yep they all run an 800m length, but as I mentioned above, the majority of Tigers are kaputt before traveling 150m in scattered woods. In any case, as a Soviet player, this adds an element of strategy that I kinda like.

Not only bog, but be immobilized. The chart shows percent immobilized from bog over an 800m path. [ December 02, 2002, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

Wet ground - Fast movement. All other variables kept the same (see above). Data shows percent of tanks that are IMMOBILIZED due to bog moving in 'fast' mode. Clear: ...T34/76 T34/85 Panther Tiger MkIVJ 1....10........0........20.......80.....20 2.....0........0.........0.......80......10 3.....0........0........20.......80.....20 4.....0........0........10.......50.....20 5.....0........0........20......100.....10 Scattered trees: ...T34/76 T34/85 Panther Tiger MkIVJ 1....60.......50.......80......100.....90 2....40.......70.......60......100....100 3....40.......80......100......100.....90 4....70.......80......100......100.....50 5....40.......50.......90.......100.....90 [ December 02, 2002, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

Result's for hunt: Every other variable was the same as the 'move' and 'fast' tests. These are done in lots of 10 over 5 test trials. That is 50 tests per vehicle, per terrain type. Data shows percent of tanks that are IMMOBILIZED due to bog moving in 'hunt' mode. Clear: ...T34/76 T34/85 Panther Tiger MkIVJ 1.....0........0.........0.......20......0 2.....0.......10........10.......10.....10 3....10........0........10.......10......0 4.....0........0.........0.......10......0 5....10........0.........0.......10......0 Scattered trees: ...T34/76 T34/85 Panther Tiger MkIVJ 1....10.......20.......40......100.....30 2.....0.......50.......80......100.....70 3.....0.......30.......30......100.....60 4....10.......20.......30......100.....70 5....10.......10.......30......100.....50 Looks similar to 'move' IMO. [ December 02, 2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

Hahahahahaha!

Okay, same test, only this time the 'move' command was used instead of 'fast'. Every other variable was the same. Again, these are done in lots of 10 over 5 test trials. That is 50 tests over 800m per vehicle, per terrain type. Data shows percent of tanks that are IMMOBILIZED due to bog. Clear: ...T34/76 T34/85 Panther Tiger MkIVJ 1....10........0.........0.......10......0 2.....0........0........10.......10......0 3.....0........0.........0.......20......0 4.....0.......10.........0.......10.....10 5.....0........0.........0.......30......0 Scattered Woods: ...T34/76 T34/85 Panther Tiger MkIVJ 1....20.......30.......70......100.....70 2.....0.......50.......70......100.....40 3....10.......50.......60......100.....40 4....30.......10.......20......100.....60 5....10.......20.......50......100.....70 Note: I don't see alot of difference between 'move' and 'fast' as far as being immobilized due to bog. Perhaps 'move' is a bit worse than 'fast' for a Tiger in clear terrain. [ December 02, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

Yes, 'move' seems to have more immobilizations due to bog than 'fast'. I think this might be due to the tank being in scattered woods much longer than with a 'fast' move. In other words, bogging is a function of time in the terrain, not discrete coordinates (if such a thing is used in CMBB).

Both these variables are mentioned.

I'm guessing that ROF is included in the TacAI's calculations. Makes sense too - if I crest a hill, aim and shoot, I will most likely take 2 shots back at me. Given the need to bracket after I probably miss, why risk it? I don't think there is any bug here.