kipanderson Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 Hi, Long, long ago, when CMBB was a mere twinkle in the bottom of a beer glass for Steve and co, I posted requesting that the 30 minute limit on the length of battles within operations be increased. For me, operations are potentially the most realistic use of CM. I think of it like this. During WW2 most company/battalion V company/battalion scale engagements took a number of hours to resolve; from all I have read. It is true that some battles were over in just a few minutes, but this was the exception. Anyway... within most 2-5 hour battles for, say, a given village, there were individual “assaults or pushes”. It is these “assaults or pushes” that are represents by battles in CM. I like to use operations to model the full struggle for a given geographical location. However, it is a constant frustration to me that battles, within operations, are limits to 30 minutes. They are artificially truncated. So my request is that the upper limit of 30 minutes, on the length of battles within operations, be increased in CMBB. All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Kip, I will bump this one for you. I hope that operations are better in CMBB than they were in CMBO. More flexibility in the number of turns would be welcome. Why not? I also hope there is some better code regarding drawing new front lines and set-up areas in between battles. CMBO is often too generous to the attacker in this regard, making Advance operations too tough for the defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hi, If any one of the five from BTS does happen to read this, I would be very grateful to know if there is any chance of my request for an increase in the maximum length of battles, within operations, to go up to 60 minutes from the current 30 minutes. That is in CMBB, of course. If the answer is no, I can take it, sort of, maybe, on a good day…. All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I would also like to see _an option_ for longer battle duration in operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I remember that Steve responded to a request for variable length battles in an op, where one battle could be 10 minutes and another 30 minutes, etc. If this were possible (and coded into CMBB) it would take care of your request. (Edit - actually they would be a step in the direction of what you're looking for, but not necessarily a solution to your request.) I guess one of the biggest wishes for ops is some reworking of the 'front line determination' code. The current limitations can make city battles or certain types of manuever and defense unworkable between battles. [ February 05, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I think the 'front line determination' code works fine as is. For city fights the designer can already set the "no man's land" seperation to 80m, which is four map squares. I think this is sufficient, unless you want to model situations where units are cut off in islands of resistance. With regard to battle duration, the problem you have with making battles long is ammunition shortages. I think the multiple battle format is supposed to model multiple pushes, each taking 15 min to 30 min. Simply add more battles to model a prolonged struggle. [ February 05, 2002, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Keith ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted February 8, 2002 Author Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi, I was wondering if one of the five guys at BTS could just let me know if my request for the maximum length of battles, in operations, could be increased from its current limit of 30 turns in CMBO, to say, 60 turns in CMBB. I understand the point about the AI always wishing to fight to the death in long battles. However, in human V human play, with the correct scenario briefings, this is not a problem. In CMMC we have also found people becoming far more careful about causalities, because they understand the need for force preservation. All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 Hi, I am still hopeful that the maximum length of battles, within operations, will be increased over the current 30 turn limit. I do understand the argument about the AI tending to fight to the death in longer battles. However, in human V human games it is my experience that if one explains in the briefing the need to minimize casualties human players can handle longer, and more realistic, battles than just 30 turns. Thirty minutes is, in my view, a little too short for most battles. My wish in CMBB is to be able to string together battles of 40-50 minutes in operations. All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Kip, your wish has been granted It's 60 minutes now IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishPSK Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 We are all looking for realism.. right? In real life battlegroups could attack several times a day depending on casualties, total ammo and how much time it took to replenish each unit(experience in the supply unit, distance to supply unit). For example a tank it could take a few hours to fill up fuel and load new ammo.. And if reserves were available they could also be thrown into the action after a given point. Why are battles time limited? Shouldn't the attacker attack until out of men or ammo? SWE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 Moon, hi, It all gets better and better, thanks, it was a long standing wish of mine for longer battle in operations. The reason for this is that, in my opinion, CM operations are potentially the most realistic way to model what , in a context other than CM, one may call a “battle” for a given objective or village. This relates to what SWE is saying, I think. In my view a CM “operation”, say to take a given village in three CM “battles” is in fact what others, outside the CM community, would call one battle within which three individual assaults or attempt to take the village are launched. As SWE points out, objectives were often not taken in one assault or attempt; hence operations are potentially the more realistic simulation. They model the pause to re-supply and reorganise before launching another attempt to seize the objective. Now just the waiting for CMBB! Life can be very cruel! All the best, Kip. PS. The other longstanding wish I had was for the ability to be able to toggle or away all “artificial” or un-natural features in CM action movies. So everything looked as realistic as possible. Even TRPs gone. I now learn that this will also be possible in CMBB, no more TRPs with the most realistic settings. It’s all too good to be true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Kip, second wish granted (game play aids can be toggled off now). But watch out, you only have three wishes Martin PS. You'll love Static Operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 Moon, hi, It’s all too good to be true! Cannot wait. All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Kip, Use your third wish and ask for a convoy command! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traject0ry Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Originally posted by SwedishPSK: We are all looking for realism.. right? I like to play games but you are free to enlist the legion. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Posted by Moon PS. You'll love Static Operations Static Operations? Do go on old boy, have another pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishPSK Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Already been in the army... you know what i mean.. realistic games.. please don't make any stupid comments.. SWE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Hi Kip, Note to self....whenever i have a wish, send it to Kip and let Kip post the request on the forum Now, about those mid-battle orders..... CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted April 18, 2002 Author Share Posted April 18, 2002 CDIC, hi, Yup, I do seem to be on a roll. However, these things can not last. My next suggestion will most likely be rejected out of hand! Hope all is well. All the best, Kip. PS. Longer battles within operations really is good news. An operation with, say, three 50 minutes battles to take a given objective, is in my view the most realistic way to model your “average” WW2 contact battle. Not that there is such a thing as an “average” battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 I agree with Kip, that multiple "battles" of around 50-60 minutes each, will far better capture the majority of WW2 land action. Certainly an improvement over the existing 30 minute limit. It's a shame that the QB generator can only produce single battles. Would be nice if could turn out some sort of mini-operations based around three or four inter-linked battles. Doesn't seem as if that would be too difficult to implement (although I'm no programmer) and would add immensely to the whole QB experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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