Invitational Tourney [Part II]

[WineCape]

Mmm, should be effectively Invitational Tourney [part LCMXIX!].

I see Shandorf's skill on the CMBO battlefield is as sharp as his wit on the bulletin board. Kettler, fire those rockets sir!

Regards,

Charl Theron

Between May 22, 1985 and May 4, 1988, the French writer Jean-Paul Kauffmann was held chained and often blindfolded in a Beirut basement by Shiite Muslim fundamentalist groups. A lover of Bordeaux wine, Mr.

Kauffmann recited daily the list of the 61 greatest chateaux drawn up in 1855. He strove to conjure up the aroma of a Chateau Margaux or a Leoville-Poyferre. Occasionally a small miracle would occur, and the scent of black currants and plum would permeate the dusty heat of Lebanon.

-- Roger Cohen, "Ways of Doing Time" (1997)

[Fuerte]

Dorosh: This is the first game where I have Axis (for ever). I like it... these über menschen and King Tigers with superior optics destroyed 4-5 British halftracks in one turn! I didn't found the SMG squads when I selected the units, but otherwise I went all the way, used the most gamey unit selections ever invented!

Ari: Axis minor victory again, 63-37. My average is improving (was 21).

[John Kettler]

Ben Galanti has now finally been sent my German setup. I had finished it once before, only to discover that I'd gotten the wrong file from kmead. Somehow, I unexpectedly wound up fighting the AI and had to completely redo my setup after he quickly provided the correct password controlled one. It worked out, though, for I came up with a nasty, improved deployment scheme.

I've asked kmead to contact Treeburst155 and Schrullenhaft to explain what precisely he did

to create a usable file. He may elect to post this information.

Now, if Shandorf (unheard from since Thursday)

would be so kind as to send back Turn 25, I can find out how that battle turned out.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Treeburst155]

As reported by Fuerte, Ari Maenpaa won their game by a score of 63-37. Congratulations, Ari!! Ari is undefeated after two games and has an average score of 70.50. I will update the standing sometime today.

Fuerte,

Don't pay any attention to jShandorf. He's a member of The Pool. Nothing he says makes any sense. Besides, he's just mad because his average has slipped recently. LOL!!

John Kettler,

We need a rocket attack on Shandorf ASAP!!

Treeburst155 out.

[Jarmo]

The fight against The Dog is one of suspense. It could tilt either way any second now, we've both been on the edge of defeat for 10 turns. I lose ground here, he loses there.

I have the flags in my little Alamo, does he have enough men to drive me out?

Mick Oz seems to have more flamethrowers. My PzIV just got a nice black coating, but survived.

I'm making good progress again at the center flags. The flamethrower there routed a few of my squads but was then gunned down. Nothing's been decided yet though. Both have plenty of men left.

Seems like he has a few Stuarts back there. Damn übertanks can really cause trouble for my advancing Hotchkiss. And have a good chance of killing my PzIV's too..

[Capitalistdoginchina]

The battle with Jarmo still rages - its going to be close.

I am still waiting for Ari to make his purchases so we can start - i have a few days at home this week - anyone else care to dance?

CDIC

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Don't pay any attention to jShandorf. He's a member of The Pool. Nothing he says makes any sense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yar! Uck! Uck! Oooga!

My battle with Ketter is over and if he would be so kind to send me back the results I will be able to see it was a draw. The bastard. He never really attack and got al his points by blindly dropping arty. Even though I control 2 major flags he will still eeek out a draw.

Looks like I should be strating up a battle with terrance soon.

As for Manpie.... He is a wicked, wicked man. I hate him.

Fooog! Muwah! Yabba Dabba Doo!

Jeff

[Fuerte]

Dorosh: I destroyed 2 more halftracks with my übertanks. Hehe...

TexasToast: We have a huge gun fight! First he destroyed three of my guns (1 AT and 2 infantry if I remember correctly). In the next turn I killed one of his guns and one tank destroyer, and I have targetted one Sherman. He again killed one of my guns. It is very c00l to see the slow infantry gun projectile flying from one edge of the map to another! I have never used infantry guns before this.

Mick: I have seen a couple of his infantry units and heard one tank. Nothing happened so far. We have one big flag in the middle on a bridge, that crosses a river, and small flags around that. I wonder if it is possible to destroy that bridge with engineers, does not seem to work.

Shandorf: Ugh!

[Shandorf]

Help! I have almost fallen but now I am back at the top!

Jeff

[Treeburst155]

Get some sleep, Shandorf. You're losin' it. :eek:

Treeburst155 out.

[Treeburst155]

The latest news from the front!

John Kettler's forces have fallen to Shadorf's troopers, 63-37. Congratulations Shandorf!!

The standings have been updated.

Treeburst155 out.

[Michael Dorosh]

Fuerte...get some glasses! I am neither British, nor have I lost seven halftracks...unless you're sitting on a turn?

Funny - despite the carnage - All Your Flag Belong To Us...

[John Kettler]

Shandorf! Shandorf! Shandorf! There's just no pleasing you, even when you win. You publicly called me a bastard because you actually thought, after you'd shattered my force, that I might manage a draw, mostly by blowing you up with artillery fire.

What an awful person I was to use my one remaining militarily significant resource to punish your troops after you not only deprived me early on of a significant fraction of my troops, but the extended use of most of the survivors.

You complain that I didn't rush blindly (your "mounting a real attack") onto your guns after you gloatingly occupied the village locations in strength and smashed my recon teams. Silly me!

You failed to inform the readers that your observed heavy caliber (120 mm mortar? Haven't checked the file yet) fires destroyed multiple

MMG and HMG teams and their heavy buildings (my base of fire), killed at least one platoon HQ, cut up and pinned a second, pinned and cut up my company HQ, wrecked the best part of two platoons (1st and 2nd echelons), and cut up and drove to ground the best part of a third ( in reverse slope assembly area). It was useless most of the game. An MMG to the rear was hit repeatedly, winding up immobilized and down to one fit man. My entire force consisted of one company of Green '45 U.S. infantry and one platoon of Regulars. You had a company of each and SS at that.

You outnumbered me almost 2:1 in infantry, 4:0

in armor (2 x Pz IV, 1 x StuG IV, 1 x JgdPz IV/L70), and had something like equivalent artillery support (105 mm howitzer and 120 mm mortar, maybe something else? vs. 155 mm howitzer, 105 mm VT, and 81 mm mortar) yet throughout the game not once, even after brutalizing me early on, did you ever attempt

to drive on the VL in my right rear, which I held securely throughout the game. You spent most of the battle just sitting there, moving only when my actions threatened one of your positions.

By contrast, I mounted push after push against you all across the line, even to the point where you tired out some of your troops by racing back to your VL on my left forward corner, all because I'd infiltrated clear to your rear. I also challenged you repeatedly for possession of the center VL, the church.

True, I did smash your JgdPz with a direct 155 hit, but generally, your armor led a charmed life. You had no crew casualties in spite of VT bursting overhead and 155 landing close by. Nor did a big shell fall on even one group in a vulnerable building.

You harangue me because I fired blind, but even so my FOs took casualties. I might add that I spent the entire game without 3 x 60 mm mortar support. Visibility was so bad that I exited the teams after concluding I could never meet LOS minimums. That same problem neutralized my sharpshooters as casualty inflicters.

So, Herr Shandorf, I'd say your chutzpah's colossal in accusing me of de facto cowardice and gameyness, even if kidding. I fought most of that battle with two platoons against two companies, with me on the attack time and again, while you blew me up and shot me up from a variety of well protected positions. I took the battle to you, and the ending battlefield map and the casualties I took prove it.

Germans 75 casualties (24 KIA) OK 157

Americans 165 casualties (50 KIA) OK 99

Treeburst155, if possible please post the

final map.

In conclusion, Shandorf, and by your own admission, you thought I'd drawn the game. I did this with less than two platoons, with not a single intact squad remaining. Just imagine what might've happened had my main attack not fortuitously gone into a sector where your presumed 120 mm FO could bring down murderous observed fires on troops massed for the assault, many conveniently in trees. What if you'd had to fight three platoons most of the game? What then, O Prideful One?

Sincerely,

John Kettler

PS

Even though you beat me, I did significantly better against you than I did against Fionn, Capitalistdoginchina and Jarmo. My average went up considerably.

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Capitalistdoginchina]

I have 3 games in swing at the moment, Jarmo has me worried - it looks like he invited 5 Langs (One as yet not fully identified)to join the Party :eek: :eek: Crikey Michael Dorosh would have a field day at that

Ben Gelanti and Ari are about to show me what they got..................no, not behind their zipper but on the battle field

John Kettler is firing another salvo of Rockets........calm down John, you got 37 points Yaaaaaayyy, time for the Celebrations my friend.

CDIC

[jshandorf]

Well, John to tell you the truth I had no idea during the coarse of the battle how bad off you were. Since the visibility was so low I never got decent intel on the damage I was inflicting. From my perspective I could really only see about 2 platoons that I ravaged and from my past experience in this tourney I expect you to at least have a company, if not more, of men left to fight with.

If I would have known, or even had a clue, how much you were suffering I would have gleefully pushed on your flag. You did manage to ravage about 2 platoons of my men and if I would have counter-attacked I really only had about 1 platoon I could spare for that, so I decided against it, since I was sure you were going to make a push somewhere else and I wanted that platoon to plug any holes you might create.

I must say... your unit selection left something to be desired. You bought ALOT of slowing moving support weapons (MMGs, Mortars..etc) and with the LOS their effectiveness was basically neutralized. You only had 1 platoon of real infantry, they being regulars, your other company of infantry was Green. In my experience Green troops are very bad on the attack and should really only be used on the defense, or possibly as a second wave to reinforce an attack that better troops had initiated.

Anyway... All in all you just got some bad luck with the map and your unit selections. I have been there.. trust me. Manpie handed me my ass with some amazing luck. I happens.

Besides... I was only poking at your apparent thin skin with my comments. You must learn to laugh at defeat and wallow in failure with pleasure. I have.

Jeff

[jshandorf]

Hey! Who haven't I played yet? I had a few other games going but those people dropped out and I lost all clue to who I haven't played.

Micheal Dorosh, do we have a game going? i can't remember...

I had games going or finished will all the people who dropped out, dirty birds.

Send an e-mail to me during the day at jshandor@ces.com if you want to negotiate now. Or send one to jshandorf@mediaone.net in the evening, since that is my home e-mail.

Jeff

[Fuerte]

Dorosh: Ok, I have destroyed only 5 halftrack and put some infantry units running. And you are not British but French, that unit marking circle with blue/white/red colors confused me, do British have the colors in different order? Also your halftracks seem to be Green... so perhaps not so big loss to you. But those flags, they may seem to belong to you, but that may not be the whole truth!

Shandorf: Argh!

Mick: He is dropping heavy artillery at the bridge area in the middle.

TexasToast: He put one building in the middle into fire, and my infantry units didn't like it at all. He has that one gun and Priest still... and he is running more infantry into front line.

[Treeburst155]

John, I don't have the final map, just a jpg of the score screen. From the posts above it appears choosing forces without prior knowledge of the map was a significant factor in your loss. Still, 37 points is hardly a wipe out. It improved your average too. Hang tough, and in the name of all that is righteous and good in the world, PLEASE fire those rockets!!

Treeburst155 out.

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Edit

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[John Kettler]

As Shandorf correctly noted, the miserable fog

nullified much of my experimental force buy. At a stroke, it neutralized my onboard mortars, semigutted my FOs (weren't in stone buildings like Shandorf's; I couldn't afford to expose them to a hail of direct and indirect fire), neutralized my sharpshooters, and deprived me of most of the utility of my heavy weapon platoon, since long reach MG weapons had to fight at point blank range. I did buy several jeeps to move MGs around.

There is another aspect to this which hasn't been addressed. That's maneuver and fire support units bought for a given expenditure.

Shandorf claims he bought almost no support. Examination of the map shows he had: 81 mm mortar FO (150 rds), 105 mm howitzer (60 rds), 120 mm mortar (50 rds). All were Regular. Cost? 366 points.

By contrast, I had: 81 mm mortar FO (200 rds),

105 mm VT FO (80 rds?), 155 mm FO (25 rds), all Regular troops, at a total point cost of 478. Thus, his heavy rounds outnumbered mine 2:1, against far more lightly protected and exposed targets. In the lighter stuff, I had more rounds, but he was able to bring down observed fire. Again, he was hunkered down most of the time.

A Green SS rifle company cost him 268 points, a Regular one 327. My Green rifle company was 448 points. Had I been able to afford a Regular rifle company, that would've been 559, I believe.

So, Shandorf had near parity in artillery at worst, or effective superiority considering FO

observed fires. He had four AFVs against none for me (479 points, all Regular (almost exactly the amount he berated me for putting into fire support)) and still was able to field two full companies of powerfully equipped SS infantry. His squad: 2 x MG-42, 3 x MP-44, 1 x MP-40, 5 x Kar-98K. My squad: 2 x BAR, 1 x SMG, 9 x M-1.

Such a deal! For the same money as the Americans, the Germans were able to field a force greatly superior in line units, HQ quantities, average morale and infantry firepower. They also had artillery parity or even superiority under the conditions, plus four front line AFVs to the Americans' none.

My noninfantry support = 478 points. His noninfantry support = 845 (366 fire support +

479 armor).

My crude analysis thus suggests that something may be out of whack on force costs. Had I scrapped my FOs altogether, I would still have been left with around two companies and a platoon or so of infantry only facing two very high firepower SS companies, still supported by the above FOs and the four AFVs. How is this even remotely possible?

Shandorf, this isn't the Cesspool, so I think calling me a bastard here is not on, as the Brits put it. I think you'll find my standard of discourse here is high and that I don't resort to personal attacks, especially when I'm winning.

Treeburst155, I'll send you the end of game file directly.

Regards,

John Kettler

PS

I still can't read the top link for the Invitational. Please post the list in this thread.

[Shandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Kettler:

As Shandorf correctly noted, the miserable fog

nullified much of my experimental force buy. At a stroke, it neutralized my onboard mortars, semigutted my FOs (weren't in stone buildings like Shandorf's; I couldn't afford to expose them to a hail of direct and indirect fire), neutralized my sharpshooters, and deprived me of most of the utility of my heavy weapon platoon, since long reach MG weapons had to fight at point blank range. I did buy several jeeps to move MGs around.

There is another aspect to this which hasn't been addressed. That's maneuver and fire support units bought for a given expenditure.

Shandorf claims he bought almost no support. Examination of the map shows he had: 81 mm mortar FO (150 rds), 105 mm howitzer (60 rds), 120 mm mortar (50 rds). All were Regular. Cost? 366 points.

By contrast, I had: 81 mm mortar FO (200 rds),

105 mm VT FO (80 rds?), 155 mm FO (25 rds), all Regular troops, at a total point cost of 478. Thus, his heavy rounds outnumbered mine 2:1, against far more lightly protected and exposed targets. In the lighter stuff, I had more rounds, but he was able to bring down observed fire. Again, he was hunkered down most of the time.

A Green SS rifle company cost him 268 points, a Regular one 327. My Green rifle company was 448 points. Had I been able to afford a Regular rifle company, that would've been 559, I believe.

So, Shandorf had near parity in artillery at worst, or effective superiority considering FO

observed fires. He had four AFVs against none for me (479 points, all Regular (almost exactly the amount he berated me for putting into fire support)) and still was able to field two full companies of powerfully equipped SS infantry. His squad: 2 x MG-42, 3 x MP-44, 1 x MP-40, 5 x Kar-98K. My squad: 2 x BAR, 1 x SMG, 9 x M-1.

Such a deal! For the same money as the Americans, the Germans were able to field a force greatly superior in line units, HQ quantities, average morale and infantry firepower. They also had artillery parity or even superiority under the conditions, plus four front line AFVs to the Americans' none.

My noninfantry support = 478 points. His noninfantry support = 845 (366 fire support +

479 armor).

My crude analysis thus suggests that something may be out of whack on force costs. Had I scrapped my FOs altogether, I would still have been left with around two companies and a platoon or so of infantry only facing two very high firepower SS companies, still supported by the above FOs and the four AFVs. How is this even remotely possible?

Shandorf, this isn't the Cesspool, so I think calling me a bastard here is not on, as the Brits put it. I think you'll find my standard of discourse here is high and that I don't resort to personal attacks, especially when I'm winning.

Treeburst155, I'll send you the end of game file directly.

Regards,

John Kettler

PS

I still can't read the top link for the Invitational. Please post the list in this thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You failed to mention the Heavy weapons company you blew 554 points on or less if you deleted a few units . When I say support weapons I specificay meantioned Mortars and MMGs. That is where you went wrong if you would have spent that on a rifle company you might have faired differently.

You spent over a hundred more points than I in Artillery which could have bought you that AFV. Also 2 companies of american Infantry with partial deletions up 150 point would buy you another AFV.

The fog was your bane. I bought a light fast moving assult force and you bought a slower, more heavy firepower force. I went for manuver and you went for attrition.

As for the bastard comment.. Come on.. you know me.. Don't take me seriously. How many times do I have to be so over the top beofre you realize I take little seriously.

Besides.. I sense you want blood... Send me a set up and you can be the germans. Same conditions but a QB, okay?

Jeff

[John Kettler]

Sigh.

Memo to self:

Never post again as above while brain dead. The mystery of the other company HQ is now solved! Will go back and carefully assess my initial troops. Many lessons to be learned here. A real pity I didn't get to properly exercise my heavy weapon company (something of a misnomer, really; high firepower but low on manpower).

As for blood, Shandorf, yours will wait. I want Ben's! Ben, where's your turn, or are you having ISP woes also?

As for being thinskinned, that's no doubt the product of four successive losses in the Invitational, three days of unremitting ISP troubles, totally wrecked sleep cycle (many reasons, including remodeling) and the simple fact that I didn't realize I was in a slanging match.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ 10-04-2001: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Capitalistdoginchina]

John, you are a true Gentleman, now all you need to do is hone those CM skills

Sorry to hear about your ISP woes

CDIC

[Treeburst155]

The Standings for John.

Fionn............309...4...77.25

Ari Maenpaa......141...2...70.50

CapDog...........269...4...67.25

Texas Toast......215...4...53.75

Jarmo............152...3...50.67

Jshandorf........176...4...44.00

M. Dorosh........60....2...30.00

Fuerte...........79....3...26.33

MickOZ...........105...4...26.25

John Kettler.....101...4...25.25

Treeburst155 out.

[John Kettler]

I had to ask!

Are we all that's left of the original field? I thought there were some fifteen to eighteen of us, with four or five who had yet to complete a game. Why isn't Ben Galanti's name on that list? Did he drop out?

I thought my greatly improved recent loss would at least keep me about where I'd been. I had no idea I would find myself at the bottom of an acutely truncated list.

To correct this, my so far unfought foes are reminded to surrender early and often!

Still clawing, spitting and rarin' for battle,

John Kettler

[ 10-04-2001: Message edited by: John Kettler ]