Biltongs Campaign Rules for CMBB - 41 South ready for action

[Biltong]

Rules off to guys above - let me know if you didn't get them.

Screeny

I know the feeling too well... When I started with Wreck's rules in CMBO I had 8 straight defeats in a row, before I decided to hell with that and gave myself an extra 105mm FO and a Sherman... Thereafter I was king Bloody Wreck was/is a Crack player and designed the rules for himself.

What setting did you play on? Player = Conscript?

It would be nice to hear from the other guys as well about their experience - Will give me an idea of accuracy of the difficulty settings..

Keep a couple of things in mind:

You will tend to start off at your normal pace and recklessness - heavy casualties!! Slow down and be very careful - imagine it's your sons you are commanding and you'll get it right

For the first x number of battles, while you are still green and learning, you are bound to lose and esp. lose Favor... Your experience should climb though. Just as in real life. No CO has much time for a newbie CO under him who is slaughtering his own men

In time this will change and the victories will start coming your way... then the Favor kicks in and you can start to control events a bit and you have Scrounged units and your men are hot...

Then it's time to kick ass....

Until the winter...

Then I pity all of us...

Please post your experiences - I think everyone will enjoy to hear them

Biltong

[Black Five]

Please Email me a copy of your rules.

jsfilko@earthlink.net

Thanks.

[Danny Chung]

Hi Biltong

Your proposal sounds great. Please send me a copy. Email is in the profile.

Thanks

Danny

[Sgt_Rekkm]

I would like a copy of the rules as well please.

[Biltong]

No e-mail addy Sgt Rekkem - rest above sent off - let me know if you didn't get them

Guys,

Looks like the first mad rush of requests are slowing down...

Got time to start with the next phase.

I posted this seperately, but didn't get any reponse... hope it might get some here (maybe better to keep things in one thread).

The more I play with the Map Import facility, the more excited I get.

It looks like it would be quite possible to play a whole campaign on pre-made maps.

In other words: a massive Operation covering the whole CMBB theatre of operations from 41 to 45….

All we need is maps…

The rule modifications would be insignificant… Depending on Map & Battle Type you will simply download the next map on a list … everything else remains the same.

What I’ve got in mind so far:

A new Map Sheet with 5 Map Types: City; Large Town; Village; Farm and Rural

If someone sends me a map I’ll modify the setup zones and flags and create 7 variations for: Axis Assault/Attack/Probe/ME/Allied Assault/Attack/Probe.

E.g.: “Pretty Ax-As” for the Axis Assault variation of the Village map called “Pretty”

You as the map creator can do this for me as well.

I’ll add the names to the Map Sheet and upload them to the Scenario Depot (or another suitable host).

Once we’ve got our first couple of maps you’ll be warned to download the new Map Sheet. When you need to roll up a new battle the rules will tell you which Map Type & Battle Type (as per normal). You check on the Map Sheet for the relevant Map Type & Battle Type and download the specified file from the host and import into the Real Battle.

If you’ve already played the one on the Map Sheet, you simply take the next one. If there’s no ‘next one’ yet, you roll up and generate as before.

In time we should be able to have a batch of very accurate maps for specific locations, esp. cities, but for now I think we can just storm ahead and create as wide a variety of maps as soon as possible.

Most of you have never created a map. DON’T WORRY – whatever you do can’t be worse than the QB map generator Just send them…. The more the merrier.

Later we can sort out and put the best ones at the top…

Restrictions: hardly any – I’ll post if we have too many or too few of a certain type/size etc. One definite restriction: Stick to the default: Axis/West and Allied/East.

Is there anyone out there who would like to take on the responsibility of managing Map Sheet and maps?

You would have to check or modify the setup zones/flags for each Battle Type variation. Upload the maps to the host and update the Map Sheet. Someone with some experience in creating maps/scenarios.

I hope to have a host for the rules and the Map Sheet soon. I’ll contact Scenario Depot and ask about hosting the Maps.

As for rule changes: Off hand I can think only think of 3 parameters that will be affected: Tree Cover, Hilliness and Damage. These are set when creating the map and I don’t want to dictate to the designers. I want interesting variations… e.g.: play with your setup zones… we all know what the QB does when it’s an Axis Assault. It would be nice to be surprised with the Soviet setup for a change

Any ideas/suggestions/offers of help?

[ November 17, 2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Pete Wenman]

Biltong hi

Please send me a copy of these rules. I'll swap you a map or two in return.

Pete

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Pete Wenman:

Biltong hi

Please send me a copy of these rules. I'll swap you a map or two in return.

Pete

Can't do - no e-mail addy. No worry though - see below

[ November 17, 2002, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Biltong]

DOWNLOAD NOW AVAILABLE HERE

Biltong's Campaign Rules - 41 South

Both a PDF and the actual Excel/Word versions are offered. As well as View only formats for a quick look at the different sheets.

Scooby did the work.. Thanx Scooby - great looking page!

OR HERE

Biltong's Campaign Rules - 41 South

Henrik's good looking site for the Excel/Word version , This is also where we are planning on keeping The Campaign Maps. Great work Henrik!!

Both sites show the latest Update Date before you do the actual download and also includes the Introduction to the Rules for new campaigners.

Can't thank you guys enough

Biltong

[ November 17, 2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[PK]

Just downloaded the rules and will look at them soon. Thanks guys.

P.S I have just created a new map with a town/city on with some approach roads. Not sure how it plays (play testing it the moment). If your interested I can send it to you.

E-mail is in my profile.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by PK:

Just downloaded the rules and will look at them soon. Thanks guys.

P.S I have just created a new map with a town/city on with some approach roads. Not sure how it plays (play testing it the moment). If your interested I can send it to you.

E-mail is in my profile.

PK - made my day again... You'll be the first! Send it along: biltong@betrim.co.za

Congrats Hope there's going to be many more from you and the other guys...

I've got high hopes for the use of pre-made maps...

It opens up a whole host of possibilities for making very interesting and varied battles...

I doubt that we realise all the ramifications...

Off the top of my head - some of the benefits vs QB generated maps:

Better looking and more realistic maps;

Strategic placement of features such as hedges; streams, roads etc;

Use of features such as rivers which are never? generated;

Varied and interesting Placement Zones;

Helping the AI on the defense via strategic placement zones; and

Better flag placement on real objectives

Any other ideas out there?

[ November 17, 2002, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Biltong]

Q....... If my Axis Force Mix comes up as Infantry, then how am I supposed to select the Core forces identified in the rules?

A....During 47 Generate Aux Forces using the Auto QB you can't & don't have to worry about the Core - this is just to generate your Auxiliaries.

Then:...

48 Generate Real Battle

"You now generate a QB battle using the parameters rolled up above. However: Change Axis Force Mix and Nationality to Unrestricted and ALLOW HUMAN for Purchase Units."

Q........And if I get points for Auxilliary forces in areas other than Infantry, the Auto QB will not come up with any forces in those areas either?

47 Generate Aux Forces using Auto QB

"If the QB generator does not generate any forces in a category for which you have points - don't worry. This will be sorted out later in your favor :)"

Note 7 - Generating the Real Battle

"If you have points left in an Auxiliary Category after buying all the units generated by the Auto QB (47) you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list until you have used up the Purchase Points for that Category."

Hope this makes it clear... added the following lines to 47 Generate Aux Forces using Auto QB to help make this clear:

"Note that this will NOT be the battle that you will play… This is just to generate your Auxiliaries… The Real Battle will be generated just below in (48)"

[SuperSulo]

One thing that is a bit confusing in:

Note 7 - Generating the Real Battle

"If you have points left in an Auxiliary Category after buying all the units generated by the Auto QB (47) you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list until you have used up the Purchase Points for that Category."

The "after buying all the units generated by the Auto QB (47)" made me think I should buy ALL the units from the Auto QB, not just the ones I choose AND that fits into the rolled up aux force.

Maybe that line should be something like:

"If you have points left in an Auxiliary Category after buying all the units you picked from the generated Auto QB (47) you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list until you have used up the Purchase Points for that Category."

Or something like that, better worded perhaps

[Snarker]

You can also get the rules here, html format:

Biltong's Campaign Rules

Use IE as Netscape acts a little funky with the conversion. You can either print the pages, or visit each of the rules pages (use the tabs at the bottom) and then make it a favorite and synch for off-line viewing / printing.

[PK]

Biltong, I've sent you the map. Hope it's aright. Thanks.

[Screeny]

Hey all,

On the map thing: I tried once making maps in CMBO, and from the technical point it is pretty easy and straight forward. Only problem I have/had is that (and this is the "tip" part of the post ) the map looked really "artifical", somehow too not-realistic, mainly too structured (Rural area's looked like cityparcs). So the trick I have now is that I have an idea (rural meeting engagement, important city attack etcetcetc) I use this parameters for the map generator in the scenario editor and then modify this map. For rural area's most of the time I leave it because the AI randomly generates it just as nature "generates" the enviroment randomly. Only thing I really edit on the natural thingies are the rivers and sometimes some additional trees. Most of the time I'll edit mainly the human build infrastructure and yes most important: THE OBJECTIVE FLAGS!! .

The AI has indeed some weird ideas on Objectives and the European city/village development through the ages. YEs we didn't planned all inm straight blocks and suburbias but so chaotic as tAI generatores them ....... .

gr

Screeny

[Snarker]

Started a campaign tonight, had 10% 'casualties' for my forces. Not a game breaker, but one of my core AFVs was one of the casualties.

Since the war hasn't even started yet, I'm going to consider him broken down on the way to the front for the after action report.

[Commander]

I started my campaign tonight too. My allied 2,100 point reinforced company kicked some major Axis butt in a 3,000 point ME.

A notable thing the AI did. Near the end, I had worked a smg squad led by Sargent Killemall into some rubbled house about 20 meters from a large woods to pick off the krauts that were eating dirt when 20 meters to either side of Sgt. Killemall two kraut flamethrowers fired simultaneously roasting 3 squad members and paniced the rest.

I majorly kicked butt in this battle though (got a 95% versus 5%) 14 casualties with 3 KIA while causing over 400 casualties with 100 enemy KIA. The KIA's are wierd though because some lousy kraut pioneers hiding in a blown up building threw a satchel charge into Lucky's tank with catastrophic results. There were no survivors and those T34's have 5 crew members...

I think Sargent Lucky is dead. His platoon leader Lt. Patton thinks so too. :eek:

[Snarker]

Ok, Commander. You've totally confused me and I'm not drinking tonight.

Anyway, the campaign rules are designed for you to play the Axis, not the Allies... unless there's a revision I've missed.

[Screeny]

And once again...a question....

ready for my second battle filled out the sheets according the rules (went pretty smooth this time) ready for generating the Real battle....well I know how to calculate the experience of my core troops but how to calculate tehh exp. of my Auxil. troops???? Guess I missed something

gr

Screeny

[Screeny]

tjee and a new question, I start questioning my own intelligence.............

Scrougned units:

suposse I have 3 battles won and the dies gave me 20, 30, 50 pts for these troops. Now way you can by any inf for that so all you can buy in support troops but after a battle of ??? with 10<pts<90 all I end up with are small individual support units. Yes in the beginning a couple of MG/tankhunters and some smal PAK are welcome but some extra core platoons might be welcome as well. Is there any way to "save" this Scrounged units points untill you have enough to buy a extra platoon???

[Commander]

Oh, sorry. I use my own campaign rules (or heavily modified Wreck's and Biltongs rules). I rename all of the units because I don't like the game chosen ones.

I had a huge amount of fun playing this way. It does make you care for your digital soldiers more. You should have seen how much time I spent pushing Whisper's immobile M17 into a stand of trees...probably kept him alive.

[ November 18, 2002, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Commander ]

[Schoerner]

Biltong, thank you very much for this fine piece of work.

I guess it would be quite easy to implement this mode for BTS into CM. Or making an additional small proggie ("Campaign Module"?) handling the rules automatically, generating the random-factors and reading all the results from a finished battle and importing the unit-stats.

The campaign module could be even script-based and therefore allowing to edit each rule's parameters for letting the community make their individual campaigns.

Additionally, if it would be possible to select from a dropdown list each unit-commander's name instead of letting the computer choose, this would give CM a whole new dimension (the best thing of the PG-series becomes available in CM).

I hope BTS rethinks it's position.

Your rules show, it would be quite simple to implement a campaign modus and the major labor and genius ideas are already done.

All that is left is a little programmer's handwork and BTS's knowledge of how to import data from saved CM-games for further calculations.

I'm wondering if Steve or Madmatt already took a look at your rule-system.

[ November 18, 2002, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: Schoerner ]

[Elmo]

Should the Dawn/Dusk modifier for Wind be -1 rather than +1? In upstate NY we usually have less wind at those times of day, not more. Not sure about the former Soviet Union though.

[Biltong]

Hi Guys,

Maps are starting to pour in… so 1st thing: All those who e-mailed and sent maps - please forgive me if I give you shorthand feedback – I’m a bit snowed under….

Need HELP fast.

Need someone, preferably with some experience, who will be able to assist in preparing the maps for the different Battle Types… All though it now looks like we’ll only need 3 variations of the map: 1) Axis Assault/Attack/Probe 2) ME 3) Allied Assault/Attack/Probe and not the 7 types I thought originally… Anyone agree/disagree?

I’m going to spend this week on getting ready (rules and 1st lot of maps) and hope to …. No lets do a BFC and make no promises

We got a host for the maps in the meantime - Thanx Henrik!!!

I’ve been playing most of the night with importing maps…. Looks good so far… some minor problems…

1) Don’t know what to do about map sizes… will be a hell of a job to prepare small/medium/large/huge versions of each map… a no go AFAIC…. I think we’ll just have to cope with what we find --- heh heh 800 points on a huge map or 5000 points on a small map should make our lives quite interesting…. So I suggest sticking to (sort of) medium size maps when you design… Maybe we can come up with a sollution later - now?

2) I was hoping to turn the same map for the different Battle Types. E.g.: North/South for Axis Attack and East/West for Soviet attack and one corner (say SE) to the opposite (NW) for the ME, but one test (only) shows the AI placing the men only on the East/West map edges – so I assume that those are the only exit edges as well and that the North/South selection in the Editor are not working…. Anyone with better info? – is this being addressed in the patch? Have I got it wrong (hopefully)?

Sending this off 1st and then I’ll try and answer the posts above – got ½ an hour – will get to the rest t’morrow

Biltong

[Biltong]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

One thing that is a bit confusing in:

Note 7 - Generating the Real Battle

"If you have points left in an Auxiliary Category after buying all the units generated by the Auto QB (47) you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list until you have used up the Purchase Points for that Category."

The "after buying all the units generated by the Auto QB (47)" made me think I should buy ALL the units from the Auto QB, not just the ones I choose AND that fits into the rolled up aux force.

Maybe that line should be something like:

"If you have points left in an Auxiliary Category after buying all the units you picked from the generated Auto QB (47) you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list until you have used up the Purchase Points for that Category."

Or something like that, better worded perhaps

Ah yes!!! Now if you don't mind I'm going to copy your words as is and paste them in

Keep it up!!

One minor adjustment:

...after buying all the units you picked from those generated by the Auto QB (47)...