Holien Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 CA I am off for a weeks holiday. We can certainly see if you can do what you say. H Back in 8 days time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Holien: CA I am off for a weeks holiday. We can certainly see if you can do what you say. H Back in 8 days timeH, Does this mean your free with plenty of time to play? Or gone and out of range of CM? If the former, I'm ready to go now. I'm assuming you want to be the Axis? I'll send you a regular email to make sure. (Of course, I've already revealed my whole battle plan--may just need to throw in a few new wrinkles.) [ October 30, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Treeburst155: ...BTW, The Capt did well in Another Day because tigers are crummy tanks. Treeburst155 out.Under 200m yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 This thread was a good idea. There's lots of feedback here for our esteemed scenario designers at Boots & Tracks. Holien, We do not need to play Another Day since I would NOT go for the second flag. Maybe if the back flag was a large VL the Allied player would be more motivated to push on. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwxspoon Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 MMMMMMmmmmmm, feedback, yummy! jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Hi CA, I just e-mailed you back. I should have been at the theatre tonight watching "1 flew over the cuckoo's nest", but her indoors has a high powered job and worked late. This is because we are out in the morning at 6am to fly to Spain for a well earned break, and she is clearing her desk so she can relax. She has just got back and I have been told in no uncertain terms that I am not allowed to take the portable PC. So I shall consol myself with wine and sandy beaches. As for you Mr TB I agree that if you do not push for the second flag then it will more than likely be a draw in the textual sense, although in pure points I would hope that I would sting you for more points. It was indeed what happened to me and that forced me to fight on in the vain hope to claw back those points. All I did was dig deeper and I should have been content with a draw. The fact that I did not lose on that game is OK as I did enough in the other games to prove that I deserve another shot at the wine. However, when we play three games and the balance of those might have a bigger effect. But who knows? If it does, it is not a problem, I will of course lament my loss, but be back to be third time lucky... [ October 30, 2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Holien ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Share Posted November 1, 2002 I find Another Day to be quite interesting from either side. It's especially scary for the Allies in the beginning if they are playing blind IMO. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Originally posted by Treeburst155: I find Another Day to be quite interesting from either side. It's especially scary for the Allies in the beginning if they are playing blind IMO. Treeburst155 out.I think a key fact, though, for Allied players is that we had been told at first that the title was "Tiger Woods"--even though that title was later changed. I saw the woods and figured I would be facing Tigers and actually worked out from my briefing, using relative costs and the attacker's point advantage, that my 8 Shermans would probably be facing four Tigers. So my tactics were based on that calcuation, which turned out to be correct. Some may call it gamey, but it seems to me legitimate to use all the insights we can glean, esp. when briefings are often deliberately vague, evasive or misleading. If you read Wreck's AAR's from ROW I, you'll find that he consistently made accurate projections of what lay ahead based on WBW's scenario design style. Whereas most of us were consistenly surprised when WBW threw us a curve, Wreck was accurately anticipating what was to come. Hence his smashing victory. [ November 01, 2002, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big X Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 I definitely like the unbalanced scenarios combined with the NABLA system. I much prefer that to trying to come up with some "perfect" 50-50 situation. As long as Another Day is being chatted about...I learned a good lesson about tournament play vs. a regular PBEM game. I'd never played in a tourney before, and as the Allies I took to heart the objective of making as much ground as possible (i.e. the 2nd flag.). I made the decision to go for it, even though I expected to take losses. If I'd really been thinking about the points I would have stayed put and got a better score. As such, my worthy opponent pounded me, even though I got 2 of his 4 Tigers. The units I lost in the assault were nowhere near worth the second flag (which I didn't get, either!) Oh well, live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 In case anyone is wondering, Holien and I have begun our announced re-fighting of "Another Day"--following his return from a sun-drenched holiday in Spain (while I sat here in drizzly, cold upstate NY). I have the Allies. H has the Axis. I'm trying to prove that the scenario is not an automatic win for the Axis. Against a player of H's ability, that's going to be tough, but things seem pretty even after about 10 turns. I've accomplished my initial goal of capturing the first small VL, but at somewhat greater cost than anticipated. The Tigers in these woods have yet to make their presence felt. Watch this page for the exciting outcome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 Thanks for the update Combined Arms! Fight On!! Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Ahhh Upstate NY, A wonderful place. I studied at a high school just north of Syracuse. The holiday was fun and it is great to be swimming in the sea in Nov. As for our game it is not going as well as expected and due to the loss of the second PB which I was allowed to move and perhaps should not have done , I am behind in the points. Even though I had a couple of shots with Fausts at a Sherman who got too close and some good ambushes. So far I have lost three sections and a HQ unit and another squad and HQ are reduced. In return I am not sure exactly what I have done but I have written off 1 x 12 man section and reduced several more. We are going to do a CF to see exactly what the position is after I have vacated the 1st flag area. After that we shall play on to see what happens. If I am behind points I might launch an attack but that is doubtful as the map does not suit a German attack really well. So far CA has the edge and I could be eating my words, which is fine. You can't be right all the time!! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 Holien, I hear you and Combined Arms are moving on to Head For The Hills now. Keep us posted please. I felt that one was tilted toward the Germans. Could that be because I lost as the Allies? Naaahh!! Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Hi TB, Will do, we have proved that Another day is finely balanced and unless you do well on the attack for the first flag then you will be in minus points. It is possible to get the 1st flag and be up on points for the Allies. However after that it is a downhill fight for either side to make an attack across that open land. Anyway yep Head for the Hills will see me as an attacker and see if I can use the arty to effect. If I can not use it well I shall lose. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim L. Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I have a question. Are the scenarios for the RoW tournament designed to be balanced only if both sides have not played the scenario? IOW are the scenarios designed to be balanced only if played blind? Or are they designed to be balanced only after multiple plays. For example I think the byte battles (or maybe all the der kessel battles) are not meant to be replayed. IOW replayability is not a factor in their scenarios because both FOW and force composition play a role in making their scenarios balanced. So if you remove FOW the scenarios may become very unbalanced. Para Recon in Force is one scenario that comes to my mind as an example. In Another Day's case it seems removing FOW makes the scenario more balanced. I thought the scenario was fairly balanced to begin with when I played it the first time even though I played the Germans and won a major victory because I feel my opponent was playing for a max, but as I've been following this thread I wonder: Are the scenarios for the RoW tournament designed to be balanced only if both sides have not played the scenario? Or are they designed to be balanced only after multiple plays. I guess I think the former and not the later since most players prefer to play with FOW. Thoughts please. I'm going to predict that most of the scenarios in the second round of RoW were not as unbalanced as people think. I think only one may have been unbalanced, but with one modification, just one, would be more balanced...at least 40/60 I think if not 45/55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 As Holien and TB have already indicated, we've dropped 'Another Day' about midway with the Allies, with a little luck along the way, having taken the first flag and with enough points (temporarily) for an Allied minor victory. My point has been all along that if the Allies play for that minor victory, the scenario is balanced--if the Allied commander tries of an all out win, he's likely to get seriously trounced. We've moved on to "Head for the Hills"--I'm going to see if I can hold off Holien's attack. I'm predicting a violent, all out struggle and a close final score. To answer JimL's question--the ROW battles may or may not be balanced, but they are meant to be played double blind, at least w/in the tourney context. The balance comes with the use of the Nabla scoring system, which is a bit like duplicate bridge scoring: an overall average is taken of the results, and your score is up or downgraded against that average. Hence, the scenarios don't have to be perfectly balanced to be used in the tourney. That's certaintly a good thing. The subject of debate on this thread is whether the use of DELIBERATELY unbalanced scenarios is a good or a bad thing. There's less consensus about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadr Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I think TB had a hidden agenda when he asked the original question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 Jim L, Maybe the B&T guys will be along to answer your questions. Here's my take on it, but they may correct me. The scenarios are designed with the goal of "fun" in mind. Balance is only important as far as it affects the "fun factor". The reason I started this thread was to get an idea about how FUN people think unbalanced scenarios are. If I were playing, I would consider the real possibility of a deliberately lopsided scenario a fun thing when looking at the tournament as a whole, even if the actual lopsided scenario (shoule there be one in the tourney) was perhaps a little weak in the fun department. As has been stated earlier, deliberately lopsided scenarios that are fun for both sides are not easy to create; but, the mere possibility of severe imbalance enhances ALL the other scenarios in the tourney. Players will have an element of uncertainty to deal with. Is this one of those lopsided scenarios? If so, am I on the strong side or the weak side? Players will have to deal with questions like these in EVERY scenario. In Boots & Tracks' ROW tourneys, players will ALWAYS have to deal with the very real possibility of a severely lopsided scenario being thrown into the mix. Will there be one or more severely lopsided scenarios in the upcoming CMBB tourney? Maybe, maybe not. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Vadr: I think TB had a hidden agenda when he asked the original question... Very perceptive, Vadr. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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