CMBB on the XBOX

[Pzman]

And while they are doing that why don't they make a board game version of CM...

XBox is for FPS and fantasy games not stuff like CM.

[SuperSulo]

TeAcH, yes, but to them, we are saying the world is flat. Arguing over the internet is very futile, it's not as if any camp is going to change the other camp's views/opinions. I regret (now) that I spoke up, should have let it slide... but I really hate those "rolling eyes"!

One funny (?) part is, I don't even own an XBox. So for my own, selfish, needs, I could care less if CM ever reaches XBox. But I don't think people should look down on console owners, some of my best friends owns one.

Captain Wacky, you are right, there might just not be a big enough market for wargames on consoles. But the beauty of CM is that it is so damn good, that it could create one. And in 3 years, everybody on this planet will be 3 years older! Todays "twitching teenagers" will be tomorrows "advanced" players.

I actually think/fear that consoles are the gaming platform of the future. I think some day in the future, I will have to buy a console to get my fix of "normal" games. That will be a sad day. Think of how many Carmacks/Charles' we will miss just because their parents bought them a console and not a computer to play on. I sure hope I'm wrong.

And yes, it's possible to hook up a mouse to a XBox.

[TeAcH]

SuperSolo - I have and am a PC gamer. I have always been a PC gamer ever since I moved off of the Intellivision and Collecovision to the Amiga 500 and now to the PC. But, I recently got an Xbox a little while ago to play around on and the more I looked into the games being produced out there, the more I saw not only the volume of titles out there for consoles, but the amount of development, cinematics, and production values that seem to exist in that market. Plus - some of the games are F-U-N and they arent all platformers.

I think I heard that the console market is a 7 billion dollar industry. Not only that, but Bill Gates, who some of you like to hate even though he pushed forward the OS that you play you CM on, has recently reportedly spent 1 billion of his money on Xbox Live (the multiplayer component of Xbox).

Its hard (and old) to spend upwards of $300 to buy a high end graphics card for a PC or spend more than that for a CPU when you can get the whole XBOX, which is a great system (have you seen the graphics in Splinter Cell - No? - then hush) for only $199.

Consoles are here whether or not some PC gamers want to admit it and there is a ton of money in that market PLUS some really great games (which is what it is all about anyway - games) out there being developed by some notable PC game designers.

Shake your crotchedy old canes at the console all day and wheeze out the words "Damn meddling kids" but their appeal, production values, and $$$ cannot be denied.

I now consider myself a PC/Console gamer with current emphasis on the PC side.

Boy! Poor old me. Now I've got more games to play! Sheesh!

There will come a time when strategy games will appear on consoles. Why not make that be the best strategy game out there - Combat Mission (with downloadable content and head to head play). Just my 2 cents.

[Bruno Weiss]

It should be on the Gameboy.

[TeAcH]

You are so witty. Ahem.

(Bruno talking) "Umm me funny. Me funny lots. Watch this guys...'Put it on the Gameboy'. Uh huh huh. That was a good one. Me Bruno so funny and stuff like that I am.

[Terrapin]

Originally posted by Bruno Weiss:

It should be on the Gameboy.

Well, it would have forty times the user base of Xbox!

[Bruno Weiss]

Hmm, that's strange. Wasn't meant to be funny. In all seriousness it should be on the Gameboy, and Xbox, and Nintendo. Infact, I'm sure Bally could put it on some arcade games so I could play it at the bowling alley. Why there's an entire market out there just waiting for it. Imagine swarms of corporate executives playing CM in the subway on their gameboy while commuting to work. And the throngs of children dropping quarters into CM arcade slots at the county fair. I dare say every poolhall and watering hole in the county would be clamoring for it. It's a completely wonderful idea. And just imagine, outta the whole crowd your the only one who thought of it there Teach. Amazing. :eek:

[ December 07, 2002, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ]

[MrNoobie]

Hmm, that's strange. Wasn't meant to be funny. In all seriousness it should be on the Gameboy, and Xbox, and Nintendo. Infact, I'm sure Bally could put it on some arcade games so I could play it at the bowling alley. Why there's an entire market out there just waiting for it. Imagine swarms of corporate executives playing CM in the subway on their gameboy while commuting to work. And the throngs of children dropping quarters into CM arcade slots at the county fair. I dare say every poolhall and watering hole in the county would be clamoring for it. It's a completely wonderful idea. And just imagine, outta the whole crowd your the only one who thought of it there Teach. Amazing.

yeah why not. i would like a portable CM.

[Terrapin]

I'm sure it would come out at least as well as Morrowind did on the Xbox. Oh wait a minute...

[AnonymousOxide]

Originally posted by Warmaker:

What do you get when you cross a Tiger I and a Panther! A King Tiger!

"Tiger II, I choose you!!!!"

Imagine the joy of little kids everywhere.

*Shivers in fear*

[notalex]

SuperSolo - I have and am a PC gamer. I have always been a PC gamer ever since I moved off of the Intellivision and Collecovision to the Amiga 500 and now to the PC. But, I recently got an Xbox a little while ago to play around on and the more I looked into the games being produced out there, the more I saw not only the volume of titles out there for consoles, but the amount of development, cinematics, and production values that seem to exist in that market. Plus - some of the games are F-U-N and they arent all platformers.

Agreed. I went out and bought an XBox while waiting for CMBB to show up (Canada Post/Customs is still batting .500 on that score). I made a mention of it in a thread along with a wistful "...would'nt it be nice if they could port CMBB to the XBox..." comment, but it attracted no attention, certainly not to the level of this little firefight.

I'd never really considered getting a console. I'm the world's worst FPS player, only marginally better at sports titles, and science-fiction themes leave me cold.

My true love is strategy/simulation like Railroad Tycoon, Age of Empires, Civilization, etc., none of which I play anymore since CMBB arrived.

The XBox came with two bundled games. The first, Sega GT 2002, was a competently-done racing sim, but I wasn't terribly impressed. It didn't match up to, say, Porsche Unleashed in the driver's view and the tracks were somewhat bland and generic. But while watching the replays, I had to remind myself from time to time that it wasn't TV. The lighting and other effects were spectacular.

The second game, Jet Set Radio Future, is something I wouldn't have bought in a thousand years. Call me obtuse, but hip-hop skateboarding isn't my cup of tea.

That is, until it's set in a futuristic Tokyo with gorgeous anime-styled cartooning and a terrific soundtrack. The National Post ranked it as one of the top ten games of the year, and I'd have to agree.

I think I heard that the console market is a 7 billion dollar industry. Not only that, but Bill Gates, who some of you like to hate even though he pushed forward the OS that you play you CM on, has recently reportedly spent 1 billion of his money on Xbox Live (the multiplayer component of Xbox).

Its hard (and old) to spend upwards of $300 to buy a high end graphics card for a PC or spend more than that for a CPU when you can get the whole XBOX, which is a great system (have you seen the graphics in Splinter Cell - No? - then hush) for only $199.

This is the heart of the matter for me. My PC is more than adequate for most uses, but it's starting to choke on games that push the envelope. I'll upgrade soon, but does it make more sense to spend $1500 + for a good machine or $300 Cdn. for the XBox, leaving $1200 for games? Both Microsoft and Sony are selling their consoles at a loss, figuring (correctly, IMO), that the real money is in games.

Consoles are here whether or not some PC gamers want to admit it and there is a ton of money in that market PLUS some really great games (which is what it is all about anyway - games) out there being developed by some notable PC game designers.

Shake your crotchedy old canes at the console all day and wheeze out the words "Damn meddling kids" but their appeal, production values, and $$$ cannot be denied.

I now consider myself a PC/Console gamer with current emphasis on the PC side.

Boy! Poor old me. Now I've got more games to play! Sheesh!

There will come a time when strategy games will appear on consoles. Why not make that be the best strategy game out there - Combat Mission (with downloadable content and head to head play). Just my 2 cents.

The market is definitely swinging in that direction. I'd expect to see quasi-strategic (and highly profitable) titles like The Sims and Rollercoaster Tycoon to make the jump soon.

Hardcore wargames are a bit more problematic. They are somewhat static visually after all, which certainly doesn't play to the strength of the consoles. And it is a niche market, so the economics are tough.

Ironically, though, CM is maybe the best-positioned of all the serious wargames to give it a try. Its 3-D presentation is at least recognizable to the Ghost Recon/Medal of Honor crowd, and its far superior depth is sure to hook some percentage of them.

Having Microsoft's muscle behind it wouldn't hurt, nor would an ad campaign plastered with all the "Game of the Year" and "Editor's Choice" citations CM has deservedly gathered...

Ah, well, a boy can dream, can't he?

If BTS won't sell out, then there's another title Battlefront carries that might look nice on the XBox: Strategic Command.

"Hubert, Hubert, these are American dollars we're talking about..."

[notalex]

I just thought of something.

Battlefront still inconsiderately refuses to release their sales figures.

But let us say that they have sold 10 copies of CMBB.

Three of those buyers have an XBox or Playstation, and will very likely buy a CM release to those platforms.

Of the remaining 7 buyers, how many will buy an XBox or Playstation to check out the latest CM?

My guess is five.

A potential negotiating point if Microsoft or Sony comes calling...

[Stalin's Organ]

Originally posted by Warmaker:

I'm sorry, but CM isn't going to succeed in the console market. Not enough people in that crowd are into our sort of thing.

As I said - it's a matter of marketing.

Markets can be, and are, changed.

I'm not saying that CM is going to change "the console market" into one for serious wargames, but I see no reason at all why a significant sub-market can't exist.

Let's face it - wargaming is a small minority market for PC games too - if you were to characterise the basic characteristics of the PC game market historical wargames probably wouldn't rate half a sentence on a page.

If, as seems likely, consoles end up in every household providing all sorts of services (net access, CD/DVD music and movie playback, etc) then wargamers are going to have them at home too.

As I said - markets change - the silliest thing a company can do is to ignore possibilities when they're as huge as the console market promises to be.

If there's 100 million consoles in hte world then 0.01% of them amounts to 10,000. I have no way of knowing how many copies CM has sold so I don't know if that's a sales figure that is significant for them or not.

But if a console company thinks CM is worth it then I'd predict that would be a very, very, conservative market segment. Heck that many ppl would buy the damn thing, play it a few times then store it and move on to somehting else - but they'd still be sales!

I predict that if CM continues in development then I'd give it a 50/50 chance of being on a console or 2 (or whatever the equivalent is by then) within 5 years - 95% chance within 10.

[TeAcH]

Thanks to you all who have constructive things to say that add to the discussion.

As for you Bruno, your lame little cutesy remark added no value. And Im surprised that it came from you, someone about 50 years old according to your profile. I would have thought it more likely to have come from a juvenile.

Why do knuckleheads wade into a discussion with nothing of value to add other than cheap little quips and remarks? Children.

Hopefully the adult conversation here helps BTS with CM or any other game down the road if they ever decide a port to xbox or anywhere else.

[Bastables]

Originally posted by TeAcH:

You are so witty. Ahem.

(Bruno talking) "Umm me funny. Me funny lots. Watch this guys...'Put it on the Gameboy'. Uh huh huh. That was a good one. Me Bruno so funny and stuff like that I am.

My Gameboy advance does have a higher number of turn based "strat" games than the Xbox =Advanced wars, Tactics ogre etc and even build em click em C&C rts clones such as Mech platoon and the up coming 2003 title Wizards. Then there is the host of "Japanese turn based strat" games such as Monster Ranch.

Those chaps at Nintendo and Bruno obviously believe that the GBA can carry turn-based/rts games. Unlike the the publishers and developers for the Xbox........

[Bruno Weiss]

Teach wrote:

As for you Bruno, your lame little cutesy remark added no value. And Im surprised that it came from you, someone about 50 years old according to your profile. I would have thought it more likely to have come from a juvenile.

Why do knuckleheads wade into a discussion with nothing of value to add other than cheap little quips and remarks? Children.

Hopefully the adult conversation here helps BTS with CM or any other game down the road if they ever decide a port to xbox or anywhere else.

There's very little doubt the idea needed an infusion of value right from its conception, that much we agree on. As for the vicious attack you levy upon me, such behavior rarely merits a reply but I suppose I can make an exception.

Yet another self appointed apostle with what they believe must be a novel idea excitedly proceeds to preach to all ears never once considering the merit of its validity. When someone nears discovery of the facade, the self proclaimed champion then resorts to the desperate method of the personal attack (how absolutely mature Teach). Never once did I state that this chaff was a perfectly good waste of forum bandwidth nor did I point out how many times it has been hashed and rehashed in the past.

Rather, and primarily out of a sense of humanity so as not to prolong the spectacle of your public humiliation, I then chose the alternative of pointing out how perfectly naive the thread was by stating the obvious while withholding speculation as to your capability for logical thought process.

And, as might well have been expected you took the bait like a bass hits a spinner. Zziinnnng goes the reel, and out comes the personal attacks.

Yes very skillful Teach. Indeed, where would this forum be without your exemplary and mature leadership?

Oh, you may sod off now. Dismissed!

[ December 08, 2002, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ]

[TeAcH]

Look. My only beef with you Bruno was that you waded in with a lame, one-sentenced, sarcastic remark not that you insulted me because my I thought my idea was golden and didn't want to hear from those that didn't agree.

Whatever.

[ December 09, 2002, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: TeAcH ]

[notalex]

Look. My only beef with you Bruno was that you waded in with a lame, one-sentenced, sarcastic remark not that you insulted me because my I thought my idea was golden and didn't want to hear from those that didn't agree.

Whatever.

Gentlemen.

Let's agree to shake hands, retreat to neutral corners, and come out swinging...erm, work for the ultimate happiness of the planet Gaia or whatever.

For our part, the XBox aficionados will withdraw the assasination order against Bruno.

Bruno will reciprocate by changing his nick to something other than "Bruno."

You see? You don't have to have alcohol to have a good time, although cocaine helps.

[Engel]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organ:

Markets can be, and are, changed.

That's true, but sometimes the company that tries that gets buried and still achieves nothing. Some companies may take the chance and still be able to survive even a total failure, but I don't think BFC could take it.

The console/PC markets are pretty well separated and answer largely to different needs, and trying to cross that gap with a product that doesn't have a ready-made appeal is risky and quite likely to fail on the first try.

If some other developer would like to take the risk of porting a CMBB-type of game to the Xbox, they would've approached the subject already; but despite its relative success, CM-type games are still niche products, and most development companies wouldn't touch such risky subjects with a ten-foot pole.

[Jarmo]

Console market is, slowly, changing to include all kinds of games.

It's just silly to categorize "console gamers" as "twitch crowd" inable

to grasp a "serious game". I think there are some 10 million PS2

gamers over the age of 30. (not exactly sure of the number, but

we're all aging anyway...)

So far the attempts have been half hearted and relatively unsuccesful.

Age of Empires is a good example of unsuccesful straight transfer

port. Kessen and Kessen II were attempts at being strategy games

but ended up as almost all surface, and didn't even have pretty surface.

BTW, the "twitch crowd" and FPS gaming is almost completely

on the PC side. HALO aside, console controllers don't compare

with keyboard+mouse control. Consoles are traditionally

more about sports, rally and jumping up and down,

not fragging

zombies with a gatling gun.

Remains to be seen if this console generation will have good examples

of serious flight simulator or strategy game. Sooner or later even

these bastions of PC gaming will be conquered by consoles.

I'd hazard a guess that XBox would be only current console that could

handle CM. And that'd be by using the hard drive. It's not the graphics

or processing power that'd hold the rest, but lack of RAM.

That aside, the problem is really the risk of trying to tap an untapped

market. Strategy games on consoles dont sell:

A. Because strategy games on consoles just cant sell.

B. Because there are no good strategy games on consoles.

Pick one. Really the same problem as was faced by BTS when

starting the developement of CMBO. In that case the "no sell" was

overcome by having a good product.

Traditional publishing house solution is to shovel some crap (Age of Empires)

on the market to test if the market is there.

[Engel]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

Sooner or later even these bastions of PC gaming will be conquered by consoles.

Though it remains to be seen whether there is any distinction between a home computer and a console by then.

[HeadHunter]

Originally posted by laxx:

at least put it on playstation 2 and not some crummy microsloth machine. they bought out atomix and canned close combat 3 onwards...

Not correct.

The first three were produced by Microsoft... then Atomic went to another publisher. Close Combat 4 and 5 were not figments of my imagination.

[ December 09, 2002, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: HeadHunter ]

[HeadHunter]

Originally posted by arkai88:

Mechwarrior4 is really Quakewarrior4.

Sure - I mean, there was nothing "Quakish" about the jump-jet "skating" in MW2...

Oh, and let's not forget the laser-boats that you could make in MW2 and even 3, since hardpoints were non-specific.

While I loved the old games, I have to say that they suffered from a certain lack of production values. I'd be overjoyed to see MW2 and GBL done up with the newer engine and interface.

[ December 09, 2002, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: HeadHunter ]

[Bruno Weiss]

Teach wrote:

Look. My only beef with you Bruno was that you waded in with a lame, one-sentenced, sarcastic remark not that you insulted me because my I thought my idea was golden and didn't want to hear from those that didn't agree.

Whatever.

Well following your opening salvo, I did return fire onto the cogent reasoning of the idea itself.

24 May 1941: Prinz Eugen and Prince of Wales place horizon between them eagerly eyeing the dawn when opportunity might once again present itself.

[ December 09, 2002, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ]

[TeAcH]

I dont want to trade salvos with you or anyone else for the matter. I'd rather just chat about a topic in a gentlemenly fashion. Anyway, take care. All is forgotten.

Thanks Jarmo for the input. I think you were very accurate.