Ron Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I just finished playing this scenario as the Germans against the AI, mostly for nostalgia's sake in remembering the first scenarios in Squad Leader. It was also my first real opportunity to sit down and check out the full game. Congrats to BTS and the designer for the fine game and battle. The close-in factory fighting was intense and brutal, very realistic, though I had hoped to see the new sewer movement; and the improved audio and visual enhancements most definitely add to the immersion. The interface still takes some getting used to as does the sideways panning of the map(I miss the rear rotating!!), but those are minor quibbles in the long run. The only real 'fly-in-the-ointment'(isn't there always!) was the AI, or lack thereof in the end. In my battle I had worked my way down to the Labs and had finally taken it with a reserve platoon and less than a quarter of the battle to go. Impatient for the battle to end as the Russian AI seemed incapable of counter-attacking, I scouted further ahead and discovered what turned out to be a Russian Pioneer platoon, two Flamethrowers and a LMG tucked into the two rear stone buildings, and two undamaged/good morale T-34s parked in the corner!(I surrendered to confirm) Looking at the battle afterwards with the editor I see the AI had the two T-34s from the start and never made use of them at all? What is up with that? Kind of a letdown at the end to see that. On the positive side the AI seemed more able to leave defending units in-place instead of moving them willy-nilly like in CMBO and did do a fairly adequate job defending with what it had overall. On a related note has anyone confirmed the *reasonable* use of artillery by the AI in CMBB? Yes I know there is PBEM/TCP against real opponents but there are times when an AI is welcome and/or convenient. Here's hoping one day BTS can put together a stronger AI. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 try playing it with Computer player "free to place units" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondeath Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 They came out and played for me ... I basically advanced to the assembly hall with my first groupings of troops ... The main force attacking head on and the recon force from the flank ... I basically had them hold ground in the assembly hall, then had the reinforcements just human wave them out of the assembly hall. Then all available troops that had a decent amount of ammo and were either "ready" or "rested" assaulted the last flag. The T34s came out about turn 9, fortunately I had my two PzIVs semi hidden covering the gap between the Assembly Hall and the last flag building... they chewed up the 34s as soon as they showed, as well as made life miserable for the retreating Ivans(as well as those brave souls attempting a counterattack). I saw the pioneer team, but they were largely ineffective because they decided to hide in the one building that actually was hit by the rocket barrage..... That is another story though. I ceased fire at turn 34, too early I guess, because it looked like I had the last flag and when the end of battle screen popped up it only gave me a major victory and had a question mark over that last flag which was German when I stopped the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 After you are done with Dzherinsky in October, I suggest checking out Dzherinsky in Febuary in a battle called "The Last Stand." WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_in_texas Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 This was my very first SL scenario I played, so I thought it appropriate to play this as my first CMBB game, too. I agree with Ron; I only saw the T-34s about three-quarters through the battle; and, like Ron's game, they were parked in the rear corner of the map. But, once they spotted my forces, they began advancing into battle. Unfortunately for me, they managed to take out both my panzers, and consequently, began laying waste to my infantry (those cannisters are definitely nasty - takes out entire squads with one shot!). Eventually, I did manage to take out the command tank with a grenade bundle. Like vondeath, I advanced with my main force, and assaulted the Russian's right flank with my recon. Very nasty, intense fighting in the factories. The game auto-ended around turn 30, with a total victory for the gerries. Overall, it was a fun scenario, but I was never overly concerned about the outcome. If anything caused me concernd, it was how quickly my ammo was depleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickovich Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Played as the russians.Bagged one tank before the 34's routed/died.Last pz4 rolled up down the tracks harrassing my defending troops in the main building till my 3rd assault with pioneers took it out finally.I launched a counter attack towards the end of the game and routed out the remnants of the huns from the western buildings.What was left surrendered giving me total victory.Took a screenshot from north end of tracks looking south at the piles of eliminated gerries.Point of this is fighting was intense but I never felt remotely in danger of being defeated by the AI in this battle.Played with extreme fog of course.Vs AI I've not done worse then a draw.Thankfully I've a friend(um who plays the game too,locally I mean ) and we have played 2-3 qb's every night on lan since game came out.Great game,AI does need work maybe,but head to head is simply the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondeath Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 The AI is defintely weak on both sides in this battle. Total victory this time in 28 turns. I made sure the last flag held. This time I drove my tanks to where the T-34s were, took them out(lost one PzIV in the process) and parked the remaining tank. I also let the rocket spotter sit this one out, since those damn things took out more friendly troops than enemy and this was with a clear view of the last flag bldg and keeping my troops that were within 300m of the target hidden in the last min before the barrage. This scenario should really have been done without tanks. Same with the Aachen scenario in CMBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 But just like those Germans and Russians to use gamey tactics and actually use tanks in the battle. Now try the scenario against a human player. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 A push over against the AI. That cementarty hill on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_in_texas Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Hmmm ... I've been hearing some "interesting" things about that Cemetery scenario. I think I'll check that one out next. BTW, I never did get to use the rocket spotter in Dzerhezinsky Tractor Works. From vondeath's experience, sounds like that was a good thing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittmann Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I opened with the rockets at the far end of the map, and didn't advance until they'd fallen. The tanks moved , one down the middle, and one to the right flank. This one nailed both T34's. The left Pz IV provided support to the assault going in, and allowed the Russians to rout, driven further once the left flank recon group arrived. When the first re-enforcements, I brought up flamethrowers, well supported by infantry, and torched the buildings between the factory units....all that was left was the mopping up. Was it fun.....Hell, yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 An experienced player playing against the AI would probably be advised to always(?) give the other side a few more troops to make it interesting. The scenarios appear to be mostly balanced for human vs human play, and the AI is handicapped because it doesn't do the 'eye-of -God' battle overview that humans can. Next new game give the other side an extra 20% troops without looking at it first. That should spice things up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 There is no question for an experienced player the outcome of a battle against AI is a foregone conclusion nine times out of ten. I wasn't really expecting to be pushed top the wall by the AI, though a tougher challenge would always be welcome. What I was questionning was the wisdom of the AI leaving the two T-34s unused in the corner of the map. Is it a bug? Does something need to be tweaked a little? I don't know, but it is one thing for the player to handicap himself, something else for the AI Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_in_texas Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Wittman, we must share the same mindset -- I also used my flamethrowers to torch those houses in between the last two factories. One thing that initially took me off guard was seeing the AI moving troops through those houses after I set them on fire. Then, I realised that another new feature in CMBB is the gradual increase in fire spreading (i.e., it took about 5 turns for the houses to become fully engulfed in flames to the point of being a hazard to troops). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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