When to Use 'Move' and 'Hide' with Tanks?

[Austrian Strategist]

Hi, Everybody!

After 2 weeks in possession of this dream-come-true wargame, I have promoted myself to 'Advanced Newbie' status. Which entitles me to ask questions to the vets that don´t make me look totally and incurably silly.

Here´s the first one: Have you found any use for the Move command with tanks? I find myself always using 'Fast' behind the lines and 'Hunt' everywhere else. Hunt is faster than Move AND usually gives you the first shot, so why ever use Move?

Related to it: Does 'Hide' really do anything for vehicles? In my experience, they are either seen or not, entirely depending on LOS, so I never bother to give them the Hide command. Is your experience different?

[kburns24]

Congratulations on owning the best software made by human hands.

For your first question I can say that move is best used when the ground is not dry since vehicles tend to bog easy when the fast command is used. This also depends on the ground pressure rating for each particular vehicle. Tanks especially will bog on you if you try and zip them around off road in wet conditions.

As for the hide command for vehicles, I use this when I am wanting to setup an ambush, but the enemy vehicles are not in effective range yet. This keeps them from opening up on enemy infantry 800 meters away and disclosing it's position. I like to let the opponent get within 600 meters or less before unhiding to increase the hit chance.

[Austrian Strategist]

Thanks! Both techniques make a lot of sense to me. There is always something new to discover with this game!

Any more ideas for Move/Hide w/ vehicles?

[Wreck]

If my recollection is right, there is no difference in bogging chance per distance when using Move or Fast. So, there is really not much use for Move with vehicles, if any. There have been people test this, but I am too lazy to search.

I don't know of any testing of the effect of hiding for vehicles. Presumably it makes them harder to spot but I don't think that has been proven.

Note that for fire discipline with infantry or vehicles, you should usually use ambush.

[Scott B]

I only use Move in three situations, off the top of my head, and even they aren't that common:

1. Road movement with different vehicle types-- all vehicles that "move" travel at the same speed, making road or convoy type travel easier to coordinate.

2. Coordinating a group of vehicles; setting a vehicle to "move" at a few points can slow it down enough to have its companion vehicles catch up, without forcing it to stop (and accept the potential tactical disadvantages of standing in place).

3. During a short dash from cover to cover, some vehicles move too quickly to acquire a target if they're Fast Moving-- this is, again, situation dependent but every once in a blue moon I've found it useful to do this.

So in my opinion, the main advantage to Move for vehicles is that it lets you coordinate maneuver more easily, as it gives an option other than "max speed forward" or "stop," as all vehicles move at the same speed on a Move order. I can't verify every single vehicle moves at exactly the same speed, but I imagine that this was the intent behind the command in the first place, as it'd be almost useless if they did not.

Scott

[Redwolf]

I use move when I want to cross an area that may be covered by light weapons or vehicles that cannot really hurt me and I want the tank to spot and shoot at them. Still, the tank should not stop because I fear nastier stuff may move in soon. I don't do that very often, though, fast or hunt is usually better for almost all purposes.

Another use of move is to stay at the same speed as infantry, but that is usually better done with hunt and pauses in between.

I don't think hide does more than telling the vehicle not to fire unless fired on. A firing tank in CMBO is very easily spotted, and later respotted, so it may pay off to keep quite.

[Scott B]

Originally posted by Scott B:

I only use Move in three situations, off the top of my head, and even they aren't that common:

Actually, it occurred to me that there are other conceivable advantages to Move, having more to do with maneuvering a group of vehicles with differing maximum speeds. In the tight terrain of most CMBO battlefields, I think this generally doesn't come into play.

Scott

[Frunze]

Move then Reverse is useful if you want a tank to move to the top of a ridge, fire, then move back down before the enemy can shoot back.

With Hunt, the tank will stop when it acquires a target, and usually stay there and keep shooting.

[Michael Emrys]

Someone once suggested that vehicles with a Hide command are quieter and therefore harder for the enemy to get a fix on, but I never found out if that is really so or not.

Michael

[Priest]

My turn!

Okay first off IIRC correctly HIDE also is an abstracted to represent things like tanks with their engines off and such. I have had great success in keeping vehicles hidden all the way up to 200 meters or so in only light woods. I have also found rain and snow to really increase this chance (and of course Fog and darkness but that is too obvious!)

I use the move command quite often and not just for convoys. It is a tool for coordination though. You do not always want to have a tank or vehicle get somewhere as fast as possible, especially when you setting something, shall we say, "deliberate" up. The other thing move (and fast) does is tell the tank that the manuever is more important than any targets that may present themselves.

Also I did not know that MOVE was a set speed for every vehicle. Hmm I will check this tonight, I thought it was roughly 1/2 full speed. If memory serves me correct a Churchill does about 16mph on a road, a Sherman does about 32mph(???)both at full bore. Does that mean a move command brings everything on the map regardless down to what, something below 16mph??? No that cannot be. I do know (pretty sure) that off road a MOVED Sherman is faster than a MOVED Churchill. I will check it.

Later

[ May 30, 2002, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: Priest ]

[GenSplatton]

NEVER use Hide with armor! And yes, I do mean never. All it does is reduce your armor's spotting ability, making it easy pickings. I tried it ONCE when I was learning this game. I had my 5 AFVs on Hide behind scattered trees, hoping to draw enemy armor in. At the end of turn ONE, all 5 were dead as they were hit without ever spotting the enemy armor. And the Hide command did nothing even with them behind scattered trees.

[Austrian Strategist]

Another (slightly) different use for Move: Infantry Support Tank slowly following retreating enemy Infantry while shooting it up.

[kburns24]

Scattered trees don't hide you well, hide them behind woods or tall pines, then it will work.

[Thin Red Line]

Hiding vehicules in scattered trees can reduce the chances of being spotted and hit by airstikes. Not sure ,though. But worth a try if you expect air support from your opponent.

[Trooper]

Another possibility which I am trying out now and seems to be working is that I'm trying to time an ambush on an enemy vehicle which is coming along a road. By hiding, and thus idling my engines, I am picking up the noise of the enemy tank quite nicely.

NTM

[GenSplatton]

Scattered trees don't hide you well, hide them behind woods or tall pines, then it will work.

They are out of LOS even without HIDE in that case. That's my point. HIDEing a tank does not make it harder to spot. And it DOES reduce your spotting ability.

[Gpig]

I agree. NEVER use Hide with your tanks. It reduces their spotting ability and that will be a DEADLY mistake.

When new at this game, I used HIDE fairly often. It almost always resulted in a surprise attack by enemy armor. Somtimes without my guys even getting off a shot (or ever even seeing the enemy)!

I only use HIDE in the set-up phase when I'm sure my armor is out of LOS of the enemy (behind tallpines/woods) and I'm not going to need it for a couple of turns.

Gpig

[Priest]

Hmmm Hide works fine for me. Of course I do not use it to ambush tanks per se. I use to hide my true force strength in relatively safe locations and from air attack.

If I ambush tanks it is from them moving into my firezone not "hiding" in theirs

[kburns24]

I use hide sparingly behind buildings, woods, and tall trees to setup armored ambushes. I am no fool to keep it on for turns on end with enemy armor crawling around. I have my infantry scouting forward to gain valuable intel on my enemy's disposition. I only show my armor after I know where my opponents armor is motoring around. Hide keeps those tank crews from opening up on enemy recon half squads 600 meters away. I have never lost an armored vehicle while it was hiding. I know that spotting is reduced, but I simply use hide to keep those happy trigger fingers in check.

[ May 31, 2002, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: kburns24 ]

[Jagdwyrm]

I agree that hide is a no-no for armor. However I use move command for my armor as a way to ambush my opponent with them or keep him in the dark as to thier area. Just make sure you have the cover to do so. If you are playing with modest hills this is generally easy to do. The difference in move or hunt/fast is engine noise created fast being worst case. Using those two commands can betray sound contacts to the enemy. This info will give him general location info and numbers info that I may not yet want him to know. By the way if your opponent is prone to sending AT teams or fast armor up your flanks a screen in front would be nice of recon or infantry, so you don't get caught with pants down so to speak.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Gpig:

When new at this game, I used HIDE fairly often. It almost always resulted in a surprise attack by enemy armor. Somtimes without my guys even getting off a shot ...

This was a pseudo-bug that's been fixed in the later versions of the game.

Previously a vehicle on Hide would rarely unhide to return fire.

Now it will unhide once it's obvious it's been spotted (which usually is the same as being fired on).

It's still risky to hide, but it works for well planned and positioned ambushes.

Cheers

Olle

[Lt. Rags]

I use MOVE when I'm behind trees or a hill and want to avoid the sound contact give away. If you duck behind something and want to go around it to get a flank shot, the FAST command will allow the enemy to track your movement. I also agree that my guys seem to hear better when they are in MOVE (less engine noise). Moving FAST will allow your "sound contact" to travel up to 300 yards.

[nedlam]

Originally posted by Frunze:

Move then Reverse is useful if you want a tank to move to the top of a ridge, fire, then move back down before the enemy can shoot back.

With Hunt, the tank will stop when it acquires a target, and usually stay there and keep shooting.

I've noticed in the past that when I use the hunt/reverse command my tank will take a few shots and then back down the hill if the target is dead or not. I know Shermans tend to back up (unordered) when they see a Tiger, hehehe. Maybe it has something to do with that. Although, now that I think of it, it's happened when I'm playing the German side too. Either way it works out good.

[Andrewguy]

since the move command makes any vehicle go walking speed i use it on vehicles when they are being supported by infantry on the advance.

[lavgunner]

I find that move is good to use when in traveling overwatch . I designate my lead tanks that have less firepower and move them fast to the nearest cover , while my larger gunned tanks overwatch from behind while at move speed. I have tried overwatching in hunt mode, but in takes away from the speed of the attack and my tanks get to spaced out, therefore minimizing the shock effect.