Some thoughts on the new camera movement system…

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Here (in CMBB) the only thing about it, (as has been pointed out) is that you now have to be VERY mindful of where you place the curser on the edge of the screen for rotate or translate (scroll).

That won't last. It becomes second nature after awhile. I only notice it when I have to fire up CMBO

[Arsenal]

Well, I like the the new system.Why? because I'm a lazy bastard and lazy bastards don't like to move their index finger on their left hand a couple of inches forward to press the shift key. Now all I need to do is move the mouse with my right hand, movements at the wrist and below only, if possible. Thankyou BTS, you make lazy bastards proud

[Kuma of Finland]

Adding my thoughts here, too. I like the new system! It's excellent as I can now rest my index finger not having to press SHIFT every now and then. :cool:

And I also love the "panning camera": select an unit, press TAB and then rotate. Whoaaa, now you can see your unit in action from every direction, cool!

And hopefully with this I can finally manage easily all the tiny movements with the small bumps on the ground (CMBO way: select an unit, press TAB, press /, move backwards, rotate carefully - and repeat everything if you moved too much).

Waiting for the actual game so I can engage the the darned "bush Soviets" with my invincible über-Finns

/kuma

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Old Dog:

I actually prefer the ability to slide sideways without the keyboard.

Me too--VERY much. I never really got completely used to the old system and often forgot to use the shift key when I wanted to move sideways, ending up with a pan instead. The new system is much more consistent with other games and doesn't require me to learn a set of hand actions for this game alone.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by kmead:

I would have loved the space given over to a miniature map top view with units picked out as red and blue dots for each side.

Speaking of which: What's with that miniature map on the toolbar already? It's too small to read (well, for me anyway) and doesn't seem to have any useful infomation on it even if I could read it. So, is it intended to have a useful function in the full version of the game or is it just some kind of decoration?

Michael

[Kwazydog]

Michael, you should see the region you are fighting in highlighted. It will remind you if you are in Finland or Southern Russia for instance. Kinda like the beep that reminds you you are driving your truck backwards

Dan

[Michael Emrys]

Y'know, Dan, that was my first thought. But looking at the map, I couldn't recognize anything. I mean, the blue areas kind of looked like the Baltic and the Gulf of Finland, but drawn wrong, as if by a 12th. century cartographer. Maybe just me...

Michael

[M. Bates]

The difference between the CB and Myth 2 camera system is this:

In Myth 2 there was a bit of graduation between panning and rotating. With CMBB, if you place the cursor in slightly the wrong place, the screen will behave completely different to what you want. Then you have to correct the camera position, and try to concentrate on the game again...

It is possible to get by using the shift key.

The whole beauty of CMBO system is that you use the arrows to get a unit, then rotate around the unit using the mouse, checking all the view points, rotating more or less to check the surrounding area.

At the very least this should be switchable. That way, people who like the new system are happy, and people who prefer the old (IMHO more elegant) system are happy also.

[Caesar]

When I went to one of the previews, I found the new system a real pain and was having constant problems with it. Having played using it now for many many hours, I like it a lot. My suggestion to those who find the new interface features a trial is to give them some time. I still cannot take in at a glance all the info from the bottom of the screen as I could in CMBO. Give me another week and I am quite sure I will be able to. I think that the majority of the problems people are having is just a matter of getting used to the difference, not that the new methods are at fault.

[Mace]

It took me a few hours to get used to it during beta testing, but to be honest I think it's one of the better interface innovations of CMBB, and no way do I want to step backwards to the CMBO system.

Mace

[billcarey]

Berlichtengen,

Do you really not use the keyboard at all when you play? I keep one hand with my pinkie on shift, my index finger on T, and my other fingers on A, and E, and my thumb on the spacebar. (I think these will be the most common commands in CMBB) It makes issuing orders very fast and intuitive.

I would have no problem with having the whole of the screen translate around by default and rotate when a modifier is pressed. It's the mishmash of the two that causes problems.

Is there any way, with the new interface, to simultaneously move the camera backwards and rotate either direction? If the new interface allowed me to do everything the old did without using the shift key I would be all for it, but the new interface removed some commands from the old interface, and still requires the shift key for some others. I just don't understand why that change would be made.

- Bill

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by billcarey:

I keep one hand with my pinkie on shift, my index finger on T, and my other fingers on A, and E, and my thumb on the spacebar.

Tricky. Do you hit W with your nose ?

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by billcarey:

Berlichtengen,

Do you really not use the keyboard at all when you play? I keep one hand with my pinkie on shift, my index finger on T, and my other fingers on A, and E, and my thumb on the spacebar. (I think these will be the most common commands in CMBB) It makes issuing orders very fast and intuitive.

I use the keyboard to issue orders. I do not use the keyboard to modify what my mouse does, zoom in and out, change camera angles, or select units. I do occasionally change my tree setting from extreme to none, but that usually only during setup. Under no circumstances do I touch the keyboard during movie playback. I find panning the camera left and right very useful, but not so much that I'm going to hold down a key to do it. The new system allows me to do both pan and rotate. How this is less elegant than the old clunky way is beyond my understanding.

[billcarey]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

How this is less elegant than the old clunky way is beyond my understanding.

There's a difference between elegant and powerful. The new interface is (imho) clearly less elegant than the old, and I think you could make a pretty good argument that it isn't even more powerful.

Consider the commands available in the old interface:

Move forward.

Move backward.

Rotate right.

Rotate left.

Move forward and Rotate right.

Move forward and Rotate left.

Move backward Rotate right.

Move backward and Rotate left.

The modifier key adds the following commands:

Move left.

Move right.

Move forward and move right.

Move forward and move left.

Move backward move right.

Move backward and move left.

That gives us a total of 14 commands, each of which has a converse command in the interface. For every command there is something to do it's opposite.

Now, consider the new interface:

Move forward.

Move backward.

Move left.

Move right.

Rotate right.

Rotate left.

Move forward and Rotate right.

Move forward and Rotate left.

Move backward move right.

Move backward and move left.

The modifier key adds the following commmands:

Move forward and move right.

Move forward and move left.

For a total of 12 commands

Now, twelve is two less than 14, so what commands have we lost? With the new interface, it is not possible to either:

Move backward Rotate right.

Move backward and Rotate left.

Additionally, the opposite converse commands of

Move backward move right.

Move backward and move left.

now require the modifier key to be in a different state than the commands:

Move forward and move right.

Move forward and move left.

So the changes made to the interface have removed two commands, and broken the natural pairing of four others. That is what I mean by less powerful and less elegant. It is a more complex ruleset to be learned that produces a less complete set of commands.

Now, the interface is *arguably* more powerful (if less elegant) if you ignore the modifier key, but that's a stilly thing to do. It's akin to saying that a three spead truck has more power than a porsche - if you never shift the porsche out of first!

[TSword]

And as i mentioned in another thread, introduce Snap-views so one can check directions fast (The "/" on the numeric keypad is something in that direction already). Those Key should also be usable in Non-Snap mode to quickly navigate (I always hated the type of rotating whether CMBO or CMBB much to complicated and rotation always to slow and headache inducing (Picture blurries)).

Movement orders should be scalable in speed, either by a second key (Num Lock does already but not for rotate) which gradually increases speed -> User Preference Setting ?

Greets

Daniel

[tom5172]

I much prefer the old system, i think the new one is trying to do too much. I belive in keeping it simple, however I gues I'll get used to it.

[Sitting Duck]

FWIW - I like the new camera movement system.

I think the new system is elegant and powerful. I need not use anything other than the mouse for about 95% of map navigation.

The only exceptions that I use from time-to-time are the TAB function (lock to unit - usually just before it gets blown up) and CTRL+click action (jump to location on map).

I'd love for a mouse "double-click" to take the place of both the TAB and CTRL+click functions. Then I would be truely free.

[demoss]

While overall, I like the new system, I think the "corner" areas are too big. I find it difficult to do a plain-old rotation when I want to, because the "side" areas are actually pretty small. I wonder if it has something to do with my odd screen size (1152x768 - Ti PB v.1).

Doug

[scoop88]

My thoughts on the new camera system is that I really liked it halfway through the first time I played the demo. It's good to do side-to-side or pan around just by moving the cursor. For me, it's simpler than pressing keys.

The dissenters also have some very good reasons for not liking it. It just boils down to one's opinion.

Anyway, we have a great game here. Can't wait for the full version.