Will CM:BB model Panzerkampwägon 1?

[History Buff]

I was looking through a WW2 dictionary at University today and there was an interesting peice mentioned about the Panzer 1. (Yes the really early model of the Panzer 4 in CM:BO ). It stated that these were mainly used only in the Polish campaign when they were deadly to the Polish Cavlary units, and in France. After then later models overtook them. Though aproximately 800 were in service at Barbarossa. Will these tanks be modeled. The question I am posing because their main armament of the standard model was 2 7.92 mm MG's. Good mobile armoured MG.

[Speedy]

no

[Mattias]

Are you sure about that speedy?

It might be for "future reference" of course, but there are three different Pz I models in the modelling contest running right now.

The "B" of which there was 74 deployed for Barbarossa.

The "C" a failed, presumably, attempt to produce a recon vehicle like the Luchs (Pz II chassis). Only 40 produced.

The "F" an absurdly uparmoured little "infantry assault tank". The front armour was 80 mm, 50 mm on the sides and rear. Only 30 produced.

The Pz I was thus not present in great numbers but it was there and if you add the 202 PzJg I and some of the Kleine Pz. Bf. Wagen conversions you have, perhaps, enough. Time will tell I guess, unless BTS already has...

M.

[Speedy]

Not sure, just going on what I last heard though that was several months ago.

[Andreas]

The numbers of Panzer I (not Befehlswagen) present in the Panzerdivisionen seem to have been given to the Pionier units, from what I read in Glantz 'The initial period of war' (explicit references for 1. and 7. PD IIRC). It was clear that they were obsolete, and not a front-line tank. The number of 800 may refer to Panzer I numbers in total, i.e. including Ersatzheer, security and training units (where e.g. Stug 7,5cm/L24 were held until 1945).

AFAIK the frontline tanks in the Panzerregimenter were either Czech models, Panzer II, III or IV. While BTS may model them, they should probably be rare.

[Claus B]

Originally posted by Andreas:

AFAIK the frontline tanks in the Panzerregimenter were either Czech models, Panzer II, III or IV. While BTS may model them, they should probably be rare.

Jentz: "Panzertruppen" shows the following number of Panzer I in the Panzerregiments on June 22. 1941:

9. PzDiv = 8

12. PzDiv = 40

17. PzDiv = 12

18. PzDiv = 6

19. PzDiv = 42

20. PzDiv = 44

Total = 146 (other sources mentions only 74)

June 1941 losses (all fronts) were 34, 146 in July, 171 in August but dropped to 7 in September and then remained between 18 and 33 until February 1942.

Inventory on June 1st was 877.

Interestingly, Jentz also shows strength returns from August and September, and now every division reports Panzer Is (p.206). Perhaps they were used to fill up the gaps?

Makes you wonder if the Panzer I was omitted in some of the June 22. returns because it was useless as a combat vehicle?

Claus B

[Panzer Leader]

It wasn't useless as a combat vehicle, but it was pretty useless as a tank hunter. Twin MG34s is not too shabby against non-supported infantry, and their high mobility and inconspicuous size probably made them command vehicle of choice for commanders. Perhaps they were also used as FOO vehicles?

I would guess that these tanks (all opinion) were mainly just hold overs given to whoever had use for them. I for one would also like to see them modelled. They're cool and did well in Spain.

Incidentally, wasn't the PzI originally supposed to be only a training tank and was never even meant for front line service.

Oh I forgot probably there main use: pulling stuff, broken down vehicles, wagons, artillery pieeces, I bet they were used as a tractor a lot, and my (uninformed guess) is that in the division which had them, they were used mostly by the Artillery regiments.

[Michael Dorosh]

Panzerjaeger I will be in the game; it was an anti-tank gun mounted on the Pz I chassis.

[JasonC]

From the numbers presented, I suspect the 12th, 19th, and 20th Panzer were using them in place of missing Pz IIs, while elsewhere they were just serving as command tanks.

Each company was supposed to have a platoon of light tanks to scout for the mediums - which TOE said should be Panzer IIs. But Pz Is could potentially fill in for that role, since they would be immediately supported by heavier types.

The loss rates are pretty high for such a small number engaged. I'd guess they were being issued as replacement tanks for any shortfalls in the light tank, panzer battalion scouting role, and were getting KOed there fairly often.

Then they probably switched to command tank duty only, either because enough Pz IIs became available, the front line units had run low, or the latter plus not proving too successful. That would explain the drop to low loss figures a bit later on. Widespread use as command tanks would also explain many units possessing them, but with small numbers engaged.

[Wolfe]

FWIW, there are 3 listed on the Model Contest web page. B, C, and F along with the PzJaeger I and sIG IB. So they may make it in if BTS can get some textures for them.

- Chris

[JasonC]

Here are some of the other variants used, with numbers.

There were 190 purpose built command tanks. 202 were converted to 47mm SPAT. 38 were converted to 150mm sIG Sf. 24 were converted to 20mm FlaK Sf. At least 51 were converted to ammo carriers. 100 were converted to engineer demolition vehicles, used to lay 50 kg demo charges remotely. 511 Pz I *turrets* were used in fortifications like the Atlantic Wall, as MG "bunkers". In early 1942, remaining tanks in service were transfered to police and antipartisan units.

FWIW...

[Claus B]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

It wasn't useless as a combat vehicle, but it was pretty useless as a tank hunter. Twin MG34s is not too shabby against non-supported infantry,

The armament is not the problem. Problem is that anyone with a pointed rock or an un-ripe mango fruit could make a hole in it.

Even the post-Poland after action reports labelled it as "outdated" and "insufficient armoured". Something that seems to be documented by the loss rate in the summer of 1941.

But Ok, then lets say its combat potential was limited.

Claus B