London Sneak Preview Report

[Andreas]

London UK, that is.

Okay, before the inevitable whinging starts:

1) this was a long-planned BBQ that got turned into a sneak preview at short notice. Hence - capacity issues in my small flat

2) If other London dwellers do the whinge on me, I won't do it again. If however there is some genuine interest and people manage to control themselves, I will consider a re-run in 2-3 weeks time for those interested.

With that said: I had a few people over tonight, Simon Elwen, James Crowley, Mike Urquhart and his mate Chris, Justin (Justin15471), Kip Anderson, Mark (Holien), Cory (Runyan99), Shane (Kiltie Lad) and, err, that's it. Yes, some people came over from the US to experience THE GAME™. I think all were suitably impressed, or at least polite enough to feign an interest. Mike brought his iMac G3 (8MB ATI card) and the game runs just fine on it and looks good. So there is some good news. We did not manage to get an Apple Talk network going, mostly because I am a dolt, but had a few QBs.

This thread is for the attendees to comment on the game. Please remember there are some things you should not mention.

It was good having you all over at my place, and I just counted the beers left in my fridge, and I am very happy.

Fire away whenever you get home.

[Mattias]

Damn, I blame the Bovington people for putting the show on two weeks to early

Well, now that the date is set the waiting will be easy (-ier)

M.

[Andreas]

Ah Mattias, yep, very sorry about this. well, you can always make another trip here. with the help of Mike I even managed to figure out how to operate the BBQ. Trust a South African to know about that. Well, I guess you can pencil in a PBEM once you hold the game in your hands. I'll make you eat Lutefisk, or somefink...

[Holien]

Hi,

Just got in and I hope you enjoy the Bishop's Finger. You deserve it.

Many thanks for the demo and it was worth the two hour drive home, and 2 1/2 hour drive there, through such delights as Brixton, and central London.

The game looks and sounds good and I am sure people will enjoy it.

My T34's were driven badly and suffered at the hands of some brave Germans with satchel charges and bundles of Potato Mashers. I need more practice!

Great graphics. Great Sound and some nice new twists on orders etc...

Many thanks BTS and Andreas for being so open about the new product (within reason of course).

I must now get some sleep as I have some sanding to do in the morning. A DIY weekend beckons me. I must get athe house ready for the release so I can play the game.

H

[Simon Elwen]

Well its 1.40 am and I've just got home , Thank you Andreas for hosting at short notice , and providing a top BBQ .

Oh yes , The Game , its superb .

I can say without doubt few people will go back to CMBO after playing this .

An Impression or two

Seeing a company of T34's rolling through the wheatfields , fantastic .

Watching a building get damaged then rubbled , awesome .

More to follow later when I can get my thoughts back into some semblence of order.

[John Kettler]

Andreas,

Your news about how relatively little it takes to run CMBB on a Mac is most encouraging. Were you able to run at high resolution with all effects, including fog and smoke, enabled? What are the full specs on your rig used in the sneak preview? If you really can run at full resolution, then that speaks volumes for the Mac's design, since I believe that the game normally defaults, on a PC at least, to a lower resolution unless the video card has 32 MB of VRAM. Still want the new iMac, though. Tell me more!

Regards,

John Kettler

[DrAlimantado]

I hope that everything went well, and that things did not become as chaotic as when I, Jon and Peter raided your old apartment.

M

[Andreas]

Mattias, it would never be as bad, if only because there was a BBQ and Chris to tend to it. There was also more beer and no G/T.

John, the graphics looked slightly worse than on my own G4/400, and it ran on a lower resolution (I run the game in 1280x1024). On the G4 t already downsamples. That said, on the iMac it still looked about as good as a fully modded CMBO, comparing it to my own iMac (that I got rid off before I received the Beta). Michael will have to answer regarding the specs, and what he thought of it looks-wise.

I was very positively surprised to see this relatively old iMac handle it so well.

[James Crowley]

First of all a big thankyou to Andreas for the invitation to the BBQ and the opportunity to meet some more fellow CM'ers and put faces to names.

The fact that it became a CMBB preview was, of course, a huge and very welcome bonus. And the fact that it was graced with the august company of not just one but two Beta-testers and a scenario tester made it even better again!

In these days of hype and artificially heightened expectations I am always a little worried when I see the latest film, book or whatever, that it isn't going to be as good as I hoped. Well, I am very happy to say that, for me at least, no such problem exists with CMBB. This is going to knock your socks off

Prior to the event, I had originaly intended to write out a long list of things to look for and to do. As with so many good intentions it didn't happen. Instead I was content to watch things unfold as everyone took turns to explore various facets of the game (all the while enjoying a few beers, Andreas' excellent sausages and the good company)

Graphically CMBB is like a fully modded CMBO and then some! The doodads give a real sense of depth and prescence; the buildings look excellent and the vehicles and new uniforms are simply superb. The screenshots simply cannot do it justice; you really do have to see it 'in the flesh' to fully appreciate the work that has very evidently been put into CMBB. Watching a line of T34's advancing over the steppe was awesome!

The other area that immediately grabs your attention is the sounds. They all appeared to be new and way, way better than the originals. Allied to the graphics, the effect is to increse the immersion factor hugely.

As to gameplay, well I think we only scratched the surface. New terrain, new orders and squad conditions and so on. There was so much, that a single session was never going to be enough time to explore it all. The overall impression that I got, was that while it was no more complex than CMBO , CMBB has aquired far greater depth than its predecessor and plays out far closer to my impression of historical reality.

If I haven't been able to convey what CMBB is all about too well, I can certainly tell you what it isn't. It is definately NOT CMBO on the Eastern front! Whilst it evidently shares the same engine (with some of the inherent limitations), CMBB is an evolutionary step up. Old hands will find much that is familiar but, equally, as much that is new.

There is going to be a lot of(pleasurable) new thinking required. :cool:

Once again, thanks Andreas, it was great chatting to yourself, Kip, Cory, Justin, Mark, Simon, Shawn, Mike and Chris

[Kiltie Lad]

Here, Here! for the post from Jim Crowley; and a very special thank you to Simon Elwen for waiting for me to show up at London Bridge Station. I would have never have made it to Andrea's flat without you, and despite the super crowded train ride during London rush hour to get to Forest Hills, I will not ever forget the experience of meeting friends who share our interest. We seemed to marvel at how honest our comraderie is. There is little else in the military historical community outside the world of pure academics where people from vastly different backgrounds and locations can come together and because of the bond forged between us for the love of this game, felt as if we had known one another for years. I enjoyed sharing my recent experiences traveling around Normandy and the Bulge with the guys while the BBQ fired up and Andreas disappeared to get the computers going. Hey, Andreas, no worries about not tending the Barbie! Like I told the guys, "I'd rather have you in there cranking up the game than out here tending the grille!" Between the American and South African contingent,we had the grille well in hand.

As to the new game, what can one say? It must be seen to be believed. Like Jim says, it's no CMBO set in the Eastern Front. We fought in Eastern Orthodox churches instead of Norman churches. We enjoyed a new interface that has a lot more detail and simple to see info on weaponry, etc. We saw tanks that didn't just go up in flames immeiately when scratched (and that was even by 88's). It does seem that the firing characteristics are more realistic, but that may just be me whining about my stuff seemingly getting perforated too easily!

What a great addition to what is forming up to be a great two month vacation. The world is a very small place, indeed. And when it's populated by the likes of the friendly, intelligent guys I met last night at Andreas' place, I'm not worried that the world is getting smaller-only more intrigued.

All the best everyone. I'm finding that trying to get online while traveling abroad isn't as easy as I hoped it would be, so you won't see many posts from me here (unless there are lots of internet cafes on the Adriatic coast).

Cheers!

Shawn McCaslin (aka. Kiltie Lad)

[von shrad]

Andreas I am glad you are beta testing BB and are probably making battles for it. You have always had a great talent for putting together some awesome scenarios.

I can't wait to see a east front version of 'Aftermath'.You remember that one don't you. It was my favorite BO battle ever. Played it 3 times against people and the outcome was very close each time.

Thanks Andreas for putting together your visions for us untalanted gits.

von shrad cooling down

[Dirtweasle]

Just occured to me to ask about mines. Did anyone notice if mines are handled any differently? For instance with the extreme FOW settings, or otherwise?

[Andreas]

von Shrad, thanks for the accolades. Unfortunately I have no idea what 'Aftermath' you refer to, are you sure that was one of mine?

Regarding scenario design for CMBB, let's just say that some of us are working hard on all sorts of things to make sure that people stay here and don't go fishing or somefink on the 20th September

[Hakko Ichiu]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Regarding scenario design for CMBB, let's just say that some of us are working hard on all sorts of things to make sure that people stay here and don't go fishing or somefink on the 20th September

Now, now Andreas, the authorities will not be happy if you go blowing things up in order to get all the ports shut down for the 20th.

Oh, and I forgot to add, "Swine! You couldn't wait until I was in town?"

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu:

Oh, and I forgot to add, "Swine! You couldn't wait until I was in town?"

Actually, I made it happen when you were not in town. I don't think I could inflict you reciting Grogporn™ while standing next to the Barby onto my neighbours.

BTW - where is the next installment of the eagerly awaited Amsterdam Leather Press Publications?

BTW2 - when are you in London next? I have to make sure I have plans then.

[WineCape]

Andreas,

My Castle/Windhoek beer toast to the South African BBQ at your place with CMBB to sauce the sausages - wish I could've been there...

Regards,

Charl Theron

Stellenbosch, South Africa

[Hakko Ichiu]

Originally posted by Andreas:

BTW - where is the next installment of the eagerly awaited Amsterdam Leather Press Publications?

BTW2 - when are you in London next? I have to make sure I have plans then.

I) To quote a famous project manager, "It'll be ready when it's ready." More begging will speed the process, as will stacks of $20 bills in brown envelopes.

II) Xmas.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Andreas:

BTW - where is the next installment of the eagerly awaited Amsterdam Leather Press Publications?

Ahem. "Amsterdam Leather Press"? This sounds intriguing. How does one obtain copies...aside from the aforementioned stacks of $20 bills, that is?

Michael

[Hakko Ichiu]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas:

BTW - where is the next installment of the eagerly awaited Amsterdam Leather Press Publications?

Ahem. "Amsterdam Leather Press"? This sounds intriguing. How does one obtain copies...aside from the aforementioned stacks of $20 bills, that is?

</font>

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu:

Large stacks of $20s are definitely the best way, although $50s will do in a pinch.

Oh. Bummer.

Michael

[Richard Morgan]

Andreas,

The last post ended with a Shakesperian quote which makes this a good point to say that I have now finished burying (and praising) Julius Caesar. Consequently, I will be able to attend your next barbeque and preview session. I will arrive equipped with G4 Powerbook, booze and part of something that used to go moo!

Just tell me (and all other interested parties) when!

Richard Morgan

[Andreas]

Working on it Richard, wouldn't want this to be the summer of your discontent...

[Runyan99]

Right. Never to late to bump a sneak preview thread, is it?

I just got back from my holiday to the UK and I had a good time. Got to meet a lot of the UK CM crowd. Saw the tanks at the Imperial War Museums of London and Duxford, but ran out of time for the Tiger at Bovington. I did get to see both a Mustang and a Spitfire take off at Duxford (leftovers from an air show the day before), and seeing those historic planes take off on an old RAF airfield, with the rolling English countryside as a backdrop, really took me back to about 1944.

Although I initially found the BritRail system confusing, I did manage to make my way to Andreas' place for the sneak preview. My thanks again to Andreas for having us all in his home, and for providing us with very tasty sausages.

Now, before I get into the CMBB bits, a few words of disclaimer. It has been more than a week since I was exposed to The Game, and I drank a good lot of beer between then and now. Second, my total exposure time was maybe two hours, which went very quickly. The upshot is that there may be inaccuracies in my recollection of The Game, and if I make a mistake feel free to correct me.

Rather than comment on everything I saw, I am going to post on the thing I was most impressed with, and the thing I was most disappointed by (gasp!). I will also mention another point I had a problem with. Yes, I intent to criticize CMBB. Do not be shocked or offended. Think of it as tough love.

The Thing I Was Most Impressed With - The sound. Everything sounds great. We had two hotseat games going on at one point, and even when I would leave the room, I was constantly astounded by the quality and the overall richness of the sound environment. The MGs, the rifles, the explosions, it all sounds like a real battle. Very good. I did not get to hear an UUURAAHHH from the Bolshevik waves, but I am really looking forward to it. Suffice to say that the immersion factor gets a nice boost in CMBB.

PS - I also love the German uniforms and the terrain.

The Thing I Was Most Disappointed By - The factories. When I picture Russian factories, I picture huge buildings with sloped or serrated roofing, huge smokestacks, concrete walls, machinery, etc. What I saw appeared to be a series of connected Heavy Buildings as in CMBO. The difference was that the buildings were connected (no interior walls), and there seemed to be clear LOS throughout the entire interior. On the inside were some very small cardboard box type doodads. I would call this more of a Warehouse, not really a Factory. I also disagree with the clear LOS within the building. I have been inside a few factories, and they are typically packed with material and machinery. My guess is that LOS in a typical factory is about 25 meters or less, due to obstructions. In some places more, in some places less, but an average of about 25 meters.

Now, I saw only one factory. There may be more than one type. I do not know. However, if what I saw was a typical CMBB factory, I was disappointed.

I feel that the weakest feature of CMBO is the way it handles the Bocage terrain. CMBO bocage is flawed. It just does not have the same kind of characteristics in-game that it had historically, in terms of cover and concealment. I am sure I am going to love CMBB, but based on the little bit I saw, I am afraid that fighting within the factories is going to be the worst handled feature within CMBB. At the very least, LOS within the factories needs to be restricted.

The Other Thing I Noticed - You get detailed armored hits even under extreme FOW. I saw a long range duel between some T-34s and some long barrel PzIVs. When the PzIVs would hit the T-34s, the German player would get all of the info. "Penetration - Knocked Out" or whatever. I thought this was too much information. How do I know that there is internal spalling on that tank I just hit at a range of 1500m?

Now, the AI does NOT know, and the AI does continue to fire until the "death clock" runs out and the crew bails out. But you, the player, seem to know everything. I imagine this could become an issue when retargeting in between turns.

I think this should be turned off, so that you as the player know no more than the AI does. Of course, you should get detail armor hits on your own tanks, but not on your opponent's tanks.

That's it. Overall, CMBB is CMBO, just better. And we all love CMBO, now don't we?

I'll duck now, and see if there is any incoming fire.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

he Other Thing I Noticed - You get detailed armored hits even under extreme FOW. I saw a long range duel between some T-34s and some long barrel PzIVs. When the PzIVs would hit the T-34s, the German player would get all of the info. "Penetration - Knocked Out" or whatever. I thought this was too much information. How do I know that there is internal spalling on that tank I just hit at a range of 1500m?

Now, the AI does NOT know, and the AI does continue to fire until the "death clock" runs out and the crew bails out. But you, the player, seem to know everything. I imagine this could become an issue when retargeting in between turns.

I think this should be turned off, so that you as the player know no more than the AI does. Of course, you should get detail armor hits on your own tanks, but not on your opponent's tanks.

Cory, I checked this again after you left and we discussed it on the Beta Board, and I think there must have been confusion regarding this one (probably related to large quantities of beer being consumed). You do not get any info other than 'knocked out' (if it is a straight knock-out with the death clock not being activated) or 'penetration' when these occur about enemy tanks. These you should get, as they would be observable. Info like 'spalling' and other is not revealed.