Joques Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 I might be imagining this, but a few games ago I could have sworn that I got fired upon my a HMG but when attempting to fire back was told that LOS was blocked. Is my memorey that flaky, or are there instances where LOS isn't reciprocal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 whoa!?! This is freaky ... I was trying to post a reply to the reciprocal LOS thread and ended up here :confused: Note to self: self, stop drinking before 9am! Goddam, this is even weirder ... :confused: Anyway, it seems to be in the right place now, so for my intended LOS reply: I would expect LOS to be reciprocal, but spotting will, in most cases, not be. addendum: in your specific case, did the LOS-line cut the corner of a building? sometimes weird things happen around the corners of buildings. Regards JonS [ November 13, 2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 He probably ducked so you could no longer see him or perhaps a tree branch swayed in the breez and blocked your vision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Or maybe one of those birds crapped on his binoculars. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Kije Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 JonS wrote: I would expect LOS to be reciprocal, but spotting will, in most cases, not be. Joques, The quote above from JonS correctly summarizes a greatly complicated matter but is of no use to you unless you already understand that g.c. matter. You might search using keyword 'spotting' on previous threads. A perfect example is the Mysterious Ostrich-Like Pillbox. A concealed enemy pillbox opens fire on you, continues tearing your guys apart for a couple of turns, then seems to stick its head in some magic sand and disappear! You cannot even trace an LOS to the generic unit marker it leaves behind! AT guns, infantry in foxholes, all kinds of nonmoving things (I know...they CAN move, but that's not how they are pulling off this magic trick) get to decloak, deliver substantial fire, then cloak again. You think of this, quite reasonably, as an LOS issue. On this board it usually is referred to as a spotting issue. You will be amazed and astonished to discover it has many defenders! Or maybe you won't. I seem to be amazed and astonished at most everything that befalls me in this game. -- Lt. Kije Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by Lt. Kije: AT guns, infantry in foxholes, all kinds of nonmoving things (I know...they CAN move, but that's not how they are pulling off this magic trick) get to decloak, deliver substantial fire, then cloak again. Kewl - so CM:STTOS is gonna be teh next title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 You'll note some units have the line "has binoculars" in their specs. That means they have better long-distance sighting capability than you. Also, I believe crack units are better than green ones. I've found an anti-tank rifle can be a real pain to locate and deal with. Ah, I almost forgot. Command units also have a 'stealth' rating from 0 to 2. Maybe the other guy's stealthier! [ November 13, 2002, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 I've had this happen before. I've been targetted by tanks that for one reason or another couldn't get a return LOS on them. When that happens, I always get out of there ASAP...if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Originally posted by MikeyD: You'll note some units have the line "has binoculars" in their specs. That means they have better long-distance sighting capability than you. Also, I believe crack units are better than green ones. I've found an anti-tank rifle can be a real pain to locate and deal with. Ah, I almost forgot. Command units also have a 'stealth' rating from 0 to 2. Maybe the other guy's stealthier!FOR sure! its not all about LOS its about spotting! The AT rifle team in the woods is a great example It has clear los to the tank but the buttoned tank has no idea where the rounds are coming from so it is not "just" a matter of reciprocal LOS. As MikeyD mentioned stealth bonus and binoculars could be factors in spotting as well -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Joques: I might be imagining this, but a few games ago I could have sworn that I got fired upon my a HMG but when attempting to fire back was told that LOS was blocked.Joques, did you really get a message that said "blocked"? If so, that is a different matter than we have been posting about. This is different from spotting. Was there smoke from any source between the HMG and your unit when you measured LOS that was not there when the HMG fired? That's the only way that I can think of that an LOS becomes blocked between units that do not move. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Lt. Kije: AT guns, infantry in foxholes, all kinds of nonmoving things (I know...they CAN move, but that's not how they are pulling off this magic trick) get to decloak, deliver substantial fire, then cloak again.Ha! I can beat that- I've had my tank TAKEN OUT by a *disappeared* ATGun. I can see the foxhole, I *saw* the gun, but I can't see him knock me out. Aaaargh. Klingon Kloaking Device Turkey. Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joques Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: Joques, did you really get a message that said "blocked"? If so, that is a different matter than we have been posting about. This is different from spotting. Was there smoke from any source between the HMG and your unit when you measured LOS that was not there when the HMG fired? That's the only way that I can think of that an LOS becomes blocked between units that do not move. MichaelMichael, yes I got a "blocked" message and the LOS tool turned black. It was not a spotting issue. I don't remember now whether there was any smoke. Like I said, I might have missed something or been imagining things. I know for a fact that a coupla nights ago I kept waking up from nightmares about what's happening to my tanks in my pbem game of Izum Diet Plan, but that's beside the point. Anyway, my question remains: Given that spotting is not a factor, will LOS always be reciprocal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Joques: Anyway, my question remains: Given that spotting is not a factor, will LOS always be reciprocal?Unless somebody comes up with a good counterargument, I'd say yes. Spotting isn't, for a variety of reasons, some already covered in this thread, but LOS is. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Unless somebody comes up with a good counterargument, I'd say yes. Spotting isn't, for a variety of reasons, some already covered in this thread, but LOS is. Michael[/qb]Squad has LOS to rear of pillbox, pillbox has no LOS to squad. [ November 14, 2002, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Tarqulene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joques Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 Ok, thanks. So until I can spot this happening again, and be a little more aware of what exactly is happening, I'll assume LOS (not spotting ) is reciprocal. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Lt. Kije: JonS wrote: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I would expect LOS to be reciprocal, but spotting will, in most cases, not be. Joques, The quote above from JonS correctly summarizes a greatly complicated matter but is of no use to you unless you already understand that g.c. matter. You might search using keyword 'spotting' on previous threads. A perfect example is the Mysterious Ostrich-Like Pillbox. A concealed enemy pillbox opens fire on you, continues tearing your guys apart for a couple of turns, then seems to stick its head in some magic sand and disappear! You cannot even trace an LOS to the generic unit marker it leaves behind! AT guns, infantry in foxholes, all kinds of nonmoving things (I know...they CAN move, but that's not how they are pulling off this magic trick) get to decloak, deliver substantial fire, then cloak again. You think of this, quite reasonably, as an LOS issue. On this board it usually is referred to as a spotting issue. You will be amazed and astonished to discover it has many defenders! Or maybe you won't. I seem to be amazed and astonished at most everything that befalls me in this game. -- Lt. Kije</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Tarqulene: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Unless somebody comes up with a good counterargument, I'd say yes. Spotting isn't, for a variety of reasons, some already covered in this thread, but LOS is. MichaelSquad has LOS to rear of pillbox, pillbox has no LOS to squad. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 This may be due to area fire. If an HMG does not have LOS to a unit in a foxhole in the woods, but does have LOS to a spot a couple of meters in front of the foxhole, area fire from the HMG will most likely hit the unit in the foxhole, which will not have LOS to the HMG. This works in with houses and other types of cover as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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