Weaponry that should have been

[xerxes]

Having played lots of CM one wonders what types of weapons that could have been and would have been useful in WWII combat.

Things I'd like:

1. A manportable high blast one shot HE (like a faust but designed for use against infantry).

2. A bren carrier with twin .50's

3. A bren carrier with an integral zook weapon system. (basically a very fast short range AT system).

4. Larger caliber mortar carrier.

5. An allied squad with multiple integral LMGs, heck an ami squad with 3 BARs.

6. Direct fire, multiple rocket, large caliber, afv.

7. I was going to mention something like the Skink but it really was built.

-marc

[killmore]

My choice would be Puma with twin Puppchen.

[Kingfish]

8) An Ohio class SSBN

[gredeker]

Originally posted by xerxes:

Having played lots of CM one wonders what types of weapons that could have been and would have been useful in WWII combat.

Things I'd like:

6. Direct fire, multiple rocket, large caliber, afv.

-marc

There was a real American device called the T34 rocket launcher, consisting of 60 rocket tubes (five inch?) attached to the turret, synched with the gun for rough aiming capability. The rockets were fin-stabilized, and therefore inaccurate, but imagine the damage a platoon of Sherms armed with these could do.

I also wouldn't mind seeing those 28 and 32cm rockets that were attached to the sides of some German halftracks.

[xerxes]

Hey, that T-34 looks very interesting. Inaccurate but at closer range it would certainly make an impact.

T-34 rocket launcher

[dalem]

Originally posted by xerxes:

Having played lots of CM one wonders what types of weapons that could have been and would have been useful in WWII combat.

Things I'd like:

1. A manportable high blast one shot HE (like a faust but designed for use against infantry).

U.S. M18 Recoilless Rifle. 57mm, shoulder or tripod fired. HE and HEAT rounds available. Field tested in 1945 during Operation Varsity, standardized for U.S. Army in June 1945.

2. A bren carrier with twin .50's

Probably would have shaken the poor thing apart. U.S. never put two M2s on anything smaller than a halftrack, and the U.S. put M2s on everything Combat worthiness of such a small chassis was being disproven anyway.

3. A bren carrier with an integral zook weapon system. (basically a very fast short range AT system).

A U.S. recon unit was noted for gimmicking up a few jeeps with bazooka twin mounts they cobbled together. Success was claimed, but I've never read any details. It does seem like a very viable idea, no crazier than the 'dune buggies with TOW missiles' concepts of the 80s and 90s. Maybe vehicle mount for those weapons was demonstrated to be no more stable than a shoulder?? Issues of concealment also come into play. Two guys simply riding in a carrier or jeep with PIAT/bazooka are probably as good and more concealable.

4. Larger caliber mortar carrier.

The only armies to really use the larger caliber mortars in profusion (i.e. 120mm) were the two armies that had relatively few vehicles to spare - Germany and Soviet Union. Even the SP-happy Germans probably ran into the fact that by the time you strengthen the chassis of an SPW 251 to take the recoil of a large mortar like that, you run out of room for the crew and the ammo.

5. An allied squad with multiple integral LMGs, heck an ami squad with 3 BARs.

U.S. multiple BAR (i.e assault rifle) experiments aside, it was contrary to doctrine. Multiple LMG simply turns your squad into two LMG sections and all riflemen into ammo humpers. Less flexibilty, and less overall mobility. I believe U.S. Marines may have gone to two BARs per squad (i.e. two identical sections in squad) earlier. Post-war, lots of armies experimented with ways to increase automatic FP at squad level, most tried a multiple-LMG squad for at least a while in the 50s and 60s and beyond I believe. The U.S. Army was notoriously reluctant during the war to change anything that worked, so even if multiple-LMG was shown to be better, it is doubtful it would have seen widespread introduction during the war.

6. Direct fire, multiple rocket, large caliber, afv.

Dubious tactical utility. Don't know if Sherman

'Calliope' (multiple rocket turret mount) was direct fire or indirect.

[QB}

7. I was going to mention something like the Skink but it really was built.

-marc[/QB]

Hard to get $$ to fight the Luftwaffe when it's not really around much.

-dale

[JonS]

Originally posted by xerxes:

3. A bren carrier with an integral zook weapon system. (basically a very fast short range AT system).

The Germans did that - mounted a bunch of Panzer Schrecks on the back of a bunch of captured Bren Carriers. Not sure how useful they found it. Hopefully some kind soul will {hint hint} post a link ...

[Marlow]

Originally posted by JonS:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by xerxes:

3. A bren carrier with an integral zook weapon system. (basically a very fast short range AT system).

The Germans did that - mounted a bunch of Panzer Schrecks on the back of a bunch of captured Bren Carriers. Not sure how useful they found it. Hopefully some kind soul will {hint hint} post a link ... </font>

[PJungnitsch]

You mean the Panzerjäger Bren 731(e)?

Link here

Also a similar Borgward model, with 6 Panzershrek tubes.

[JonS]

Why, thank you gentlemen :cool:

[PJungnitsch]

1. A manportable high blast one shot HE (like a faust but designed for use against infantry).

A Panzer faust 150 with shrapnel ring would probably do. Link and photo here

Or maybe a

'Schrappnellfaust' ("Shrapnel Fist")

a Panzerfaust-like but reloadable weapon designed to attack infantry. It weighed 8kg (17.6 lb)and projected its warhead to a range of up to 400m (440 yd.). A time fuse detonated the warhead as an airburst at 2 - 3 meters (6.5 - 10 ft.) above ground. About hundred were undergoing weapon trials with the Wehrmacht when the war ended.

[xerxes]

Very cool replies on the funky weapon systems. Thanks!!! I assume the Panzerjäger Bren will be included in CMBB. I want my Schrappnellfaust too! :eek:

-marc

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by xerxes:

[snips]

Things I'd like:

1. A manportable high blast one shot HE (like a faust but designed for use against infantry).

HE is boring. Give us flame; give us that neat little Einstossflammenwerfer, or whatever it was called.

2. A bren carrier with twin .50's

[tar]

1. A manportable high blast one shot HE (like a faust but designed for use against infantry).

Isn't this just a satchel charge?

[Barrold]

The benefit of the dream weapon that instead of having to get real close like tossing a satchel charge and perhaps running across crisscrossing fields of machinegun fire to get there, one might have been able to stand off a bit.

On the other hand it probably would have been a pain in the butt in some other way that someone here would find a way to complain about if it did exist so it is probably just as well.

BDH

[MajorBooBoo]

How about a Mini-Hellcat?

Take a M5 Stuart Tank and make it just bulletproof. Install a open-top TD type turret with a 6 pounder ATG. It gets ALL APDS and full gyro.

This baby could spin tracks and does 50 MPH.

[Charlie Rock]

The USMC built a number 3. in the early 60's.

Called the Ontos (Greek for "The Thing") it was rooughly the dimensions of a bren, with a roof. It mounted six 106mm recoilless rockets on the roof.

In Hue, in 1968, a tank would suppress a building, the Ontos would do a fastmove/reverse berm drill, firing all six rounds into the target building. Very effective, but hazardous to your health. Thin armor.

Speaking of which, where's the napalm?

1. Could be a 90mm RR, or a SMAW. MG Gavin and the 82nd also stole any panzerfaust they could find, and used them.

I'd like to see the M16 quad .50 halftrack, or the M15, a twin .50 with 37mm ADA combo mounted on the M3 halftrack. Deadly.

For true grogness, why don't German fallschirmjager get FG42's? They could have a really loud wav file to simulate firing full bore 7.62 rounds out of the shortened barrels.

[Monty's Double]

Calliope was indirect fire, I'm pretty sure, so if it was in CMBO it would be represented by off table arty. Why not try "Tulip" instead? 60lb rocket rails welded to the sides of Sherman turrets. Now that's the kind of direct fire HE I want.

[Brian]

You know, its a real pity the Davy Crocket isn't in the game...

[Hakko Ichiu]

Originally posted by Brian:

You know, its a real pity the Davy Crocket isn't in the game...

I'll just let you light the blue touchpaper on that one...

[The_Capt]

Originally posted by Brian:

You know, its a real pity the Davy Crocket isn't in the game...

I knew it as a matter of time until someone brought up that thing.

[Monty's Double]

Brian, you are a genius. Just think, coding the game would be a doddle: you just go straight from the mission menu to the after action report. Lots of Draws, I'd guess. BTW, do you rememeber the USAF used to have a nuclear AAM as well? Called the Genie I think, unguided. I remember reading something by a US pilot who got to fire a load of de-warheaded ones off when they were withdrawn from service. They shot off any direction but straight ahead apparently. I wonder if they ever developed a nuclear cigarette lighter in the 50's?

[Trooper]

1) Well, they have an interesting one these days called Bunkerfaust... Not much use in WWII though.

2) There was an interesting one called the Mantis. It was a machinegun on an elevating platform, could raise up to about 12 feet from the ground at least to shoot over low buildings, walls, and whatnot.

3) I take it the Brencarrier with the Boys ATR won't count? Would have been mildly useful in the early war though, against all those MkIs and MkIIs

NTM