Kiltie Lad Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 So watch out Brits! Actually, we are flying in to London first week of July, and will do the several museums other CM'ers have suggested (still looking for others too, guys)and then crossing the Channel to visit Normandy, Bulge, Waterloo (man,the Prussian Jagdpanthers tore up those columns of cuirassiers!)and any other places of WWII interest (still seeking advice from youse guys with local knowledge). My friend has found a tour company in Britain that will load us up in a coach and take us over, which has all the appearances of being competent, but who knows? I favor getting on the ground and finding someone on site whom I can test a bit before committing my battle-thirsty Euros. There's nothing worse than shelling out dough only to find out I know more than the guide. Anyone have suggestions as to which philosophy might be best, or competent tour guides (primarily of Normandy and Bulge)? Also, any of you lot in the UK that wouldn't mind hoisting a few with two friendly, history buffs who've spent plenty of time abroad (he- school, me- a hotel porter in Bayswater, and grad school in Southampton), that aren't goofballs, let me know. Arrive first week of July. Hell, I'll even buy a pint for a Pengger! Cheers! Shawn McCaslin (here or Seamus660@AOL.com) [ May 16, 2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Kiltie Lad ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 If you have a chance to go a little earlier you could visited the Tankfest at Bovington on the 30th of June. Sounds like a great event and with a bit of luck the Tiger will make a running appearance. I'm trying to get around to arrange a trip there myself Anyone else going? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Don't they have to stay in quarantine for 30 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 I presume you will be near brussels, if so definitely check out the Belgian Musee de l'Armee. It is very cool, and includes a tank park. And it is the only free museum in europe I can think of. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Originally posted by Mattias: If you have a chance to go a little earlier you could visited the Tankfest at Bovington on the 30th of June. Sounds like a great event and with a bit of luck the Tiger will make a running appearance. I'm trying to get around to arrange a trip there myself Anyone else going? M.I am thinking about it. Email me if you are interesting in arranging a joint trip from London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtcm Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Don;t forget to go to the National Army Museum in Chelsea (London) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Hmmm 30th June.... E-mail on the way. I just have to talk to her indoors this weekend when I find her in a good mood. As for tour groups I can offer no advice on that. It is good value if you want an easy time of it. If it was me I would load myself up with Tour Guides (books you can buy). Rent a car and do it at my own pace. Especially France. You should be able to get a car in the UK that you can take over to France. The only issue is getting used to driving UK style. Should be no problem as I drive in the US and can manage it. The cost should be less if you get your own car and do it yourself. As for Hosting if you are in the Banbury area I would go for a beer and suggest some places for you to B&B which is cheap and gives you a chance to marvel at quaint English Landladies. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 I used a tour for the D-Day sites and would recommend them if your time is limited and not there for educational info from the guide, which was my case. But if you have the time, rent a car yourself so you can explore. I would have spent more time at some places but couldn't do to the itinerery. On another note, I have a four day layover in London in a couple of weeks and wanted to head out to Bovington. So a question for the Bovington vets, what's the logistics from the Wool rail station to the museum? Bus, taxi, walk, hijacking, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PondScum Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 The Duxford Air Museum near Cambridge (less than 1 hour from London by non-stop train from Kings Cross, then a free bus to Duxford) is advertising a "Normandy Experience" exhibition. Don't let the "Air Museum" tag put you off, since they have a very large land warfare hall with lots of WWII vehicles and equipment in there. They also have the only USAAF museum in the UK, I believe. Based on their previous exhibitions, I'd guess that the Normandy Experience will be a walk through a series of battlefield scenes (recreated indoors with authentic equipment), with audio/video clips at each one. Probably worth a bit of time with a search engine. Note that apart from the Land Warfare Hall, they also have five (I think) huge hangars full of other aircraft, including WWII fighters in the process of being stripped down and rebuilt. I've tried to do it in a day and failed, but if you were singleminded you could probably do the Normandy Experience and then squeeze in however many other hangars you can run round before they close... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Originally posted by Max Power: So a question for the Bovington vets, what's the logistics from the Wool rail station to the museum? Bus, taxi, walk, hijacking, or what?There are buses that depart from the train station. I suppose they are somewhat synchronised with the trains (we took the train from London). Talk to the bus driver and you'll probably be dropped off right outside the museum. When we were finished at the museum we took a taxi back since we didn't want to wait for the bus (not many buses in the afternoon at that time). It wasn't expensive, and it was well worth it after a day of walking and gawking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Duxford is great and if you can get it on a day when the air show is on it is fantastic. Highly recommended! A lot easier to get to than Bovington and if memory serves me right I would say better geared to the vistor. Mind you that might be a dis-service to Bovington based on old memories. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltie Lad Posted May 20, 2002 Author Share Posted May 20, 2002 Guys, thanks for all the good ideas and advice. Heard also that the museum in Samur is also quite good. Since that isn't far from Normandy, will probably check it out too. My buddy has decided to take the tour going from England (eventhough we aren't "tour" kind of people) as he thinks it will provide a good overview and will give us an opportunity to explore more deeply when I arrive 3 days later. I'm so used to touring American Civil War battlefields, which are relatively compact, that trying to get detailed ideas of what I want to see at Normandy and the Bulge kind of boggles my mind. Any recommendations of places to go in the Bulge? Still, appreciating your advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan5681 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 c'mon youve got to do Pegasus Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Eat at Peng's in Pimlico Road. You won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu: Eat at Peng's in Pimlico Road. You won't regret it.Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 getting.......jealous...... Allright, that's it! Planning for next major trip starts now, and it will be WWII tour of Europe. Hopefully, we'll have air service out of Nebraska soon. I have huge regret about spending two and a half years playing Army in Germany ('86-'88)and hardly doing any WWII history touring. What the hell was I thinking?! Bet it's gonna cost me alot more now.... Yet another benefit of CM: The Forum/Handy Travel Guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Malan Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Originally posted by Kiltie Lad: Guys, thanks for all the good ideas and advice. Heard also that the museum in Samur is also quite good. Since that isn't far from Normandy, will probably check it out too. My buddy has decided to take the tour going from England (eventhough we aren't "tour" kind of people) as he thinks it will provide a good overview and will give us an opportunity to explore more deeply when I arrive 3 days later. I'm so used to touring American Civil War battlefields, which are relatively compact, that trying to get detailed ideas of what I want to see at Normandy and the Bulge kind of boggles my mind. Any recommendations of places to go in the Bulge? Still, appreciating your advice!The French tank museum at Saumur is very good, and well worth the visit. However your comment about it not being far from Normandy is a bit relative. It's not far relative to say New York, but it is 150 miles, which will take you c4hrs. In summer, certain roads in France can be heaving (for example Le Mans, which is relevant to you, and Poitiers or Lyons, which isn't!) The distance from Normandy to the Bulge is also pretty impressive (c350 miles). These may not sound much to US types, but you don't get miles of empty road in Europe [edit] - or at least you do in parts of rural France, but then you hit a holiday route or a city or something! The site I tried suggested 6+hrs driving for this one (mostly autoroute), but I think you would be lucky, since it goes via Paris (always good for a mind expanding drive!) Sorry to you French, this is a British holiday makers view. All of this is do-able, and it's a lovely country. Just don't assume that you can get from a-b in distance/55mph! cos you likely wont. The Bulge battles cover a goodly distance, in terrain that is hilly, and so on, so allow a lot of time if you want to cover it. Normandy is much easier, you can easily drive the length of the beaches in 1/2 day or less, but in reality you could spend a week in Normandy and not see all the battle sites. Then of course there is all the non WWII stuff (Bayeux tapistry etc) which is well worth seeing. As you might tell I like Normandy! The museum in Caen is well worth a visit BTW. [ May 20, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Sailor Malan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Determinant Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 There are two schools of thought on battlefield tours - cover as much ground as possible or cover your ground as in much detail as possible. If you want to do the first then an organised coach tour is ideal. I suspect though that most CM players would prefer a more detailed 'in the weeds' experience. My advice would be to do Normandy in some detail. Get some really good first hand accounts and good maps and go for the detail of what happened. For myself I will not forget the disappointment of driving through Villers Bocage and not having detailed enough sources with me to understand what Wittmann actually did on his rampage through the town. But here's the best tip: get the 2315 Hrs ferry from Portsmouth to Caen. This arrives at 0615 Hrs the next morning. You are of course retracing the voyage of the invasion fleet and at dawn you will have the same view of the French coast that the assault troops had in June 44 (less explosions and incoming fire of course). If that doesn't make the hair on the back of your neck prickle then nothing will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Godd suggestions, and another vote hee for Duxford and Pegasus Bridge. Near Pegasus Bridge is the Merville (IIRC) Battery facing Sword which was also assaulted by the Paras at heavy cost. It's pretty rudimentary but was totally deserted when I got there and incredibly atmospheric. Worth the small detour if you have time. I recommend also the impressive Mulberry harbour remains still ringed around Arromanches (but give the museum a miss IMHO), the dramatic moonscape on top of the Pont-du-Hoc caused by naval gunfire, and the grandly moving US cemetary over Omaha. Try to ignore the crass signs nearby inviting you for a round at 'Omaha Beach Golf Club'. Grrrrr. I'd also recommend St Mere Eglise and the US Airborne museum there. Walk on all 5 invasion beaches and use your imagination, you don't need a guide. Hopefully the weather will be good for you and you'll have time to go a little way into the beautiful Norman countryside. Try the Calvados! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: Walk on all 5 invasion beaches and use your imagination, you don't need a guide. Somewhere there are jpg's of the Omaha beach map used by the Allies that shows the fortifications, gun emplacements, etc. It might help with the imagination If you can't find the pics I may be able to e-mail them to you or make them available on a web page temporarily but I need to know by the end of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Right I dug out my guide to the sites around Normandy and I have some time to recommend must sees. 1. Utah Beach has a great museum in the command bunker on the sea front. The inside of the bunker has exhibts etc... 2. Walk the beach at Omaha and look up at the ridge. Try and imagine less houses and chalets along the beach front. Bring some good trousers and boots if you want to get off the trail and look along some of the old trench networks. (very overgrown and not as deep due to erosion.) 3. Pointe Du Hoc. A good site for a view of the coast line and some very large costal gun bunkers. 4. German Radar Station at Douvres-la-delivrande. Excellent site with restored bunkers and radar. This site held out many days after the invasion and was not cracked for 11 days. A not well known battle but when you walk the site imagine being a German holding out for 11 days after the invasion!! There are many more and I need to spend a lot more time in Normandy. You could seriously do just Normandy. Beware of trying to cover too much in too short a time. I tend to find it is better to do a little in depth. You gain more see more and your body takes less of a hit. A good book I brought is a Gallimard Guide "France Battle of Normandy". Isbn 2-7424-0243-8. It is a tad light weight but a fantastic overview with plenty of maps, recommended tours (driving routes) with explanations etc... Regards H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltie Lad Posted May 21, 2002 Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 Max, I'd love to see the pictures you may be able to find from Normandy! Feel free to email me with them. The idea about arriving via the ferry is also quite good. Maybe I should start my own tour company and bring tourists onshore from landing craft! The distances are, indeed, not much to an American. Hell, we'll drive 20 miles to get an ice cream. Thanks for the info., we will definitely factor that in. Where is a good place to get Normandy and Bulge maps, guys? Should I try to get them Stateside, or once in Europe? Thanks again, and glad this is whetting the appetites of fellow CM'ers. Wouldn't it be cool to get a group of us together at the same Norman village, have a couple of laptops, some good books about a local battle and refight it over Stella Artois and port? Hmmmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Sean, Here is an excellent site that sponsors tours of WWII battles (based in NC), and also includes some great pictures and maps of Normandy "then and now." http://www.normandybattlefields.com/battle_sites.htm Last August, I spent two weeks scouting the entire Bulge area (about 40x60 miles) in a rental car with my own guidebooks. For all that, I only got the lay of the land, so I'm going back again this August to do it right. There is a LOT to see. I put about 1100 miles on my brand new Golf in two weeks, and Avis didn't flinch. Hehehe.... I HIGHLY recommend the newest guide book titled "A Tour of the Bulge Battlefield" by William C. Cavanagh. He is a younger generation colleague of Charles MacDonald, Danny Parker, Jean Paul Pallud, etc. who has done a fine job of laying out tour routes in the Bulge area with interesting descriptions of the actual events and history. A great read by itself. If you've read "Company Commander" and "Time for Trumpets", he also guides you to those exact spots mentioned in the books. I wish I'd had this book last summer, but it only came out this year. I plan to use this book as my guide this summer. I've got all the Normandy guidebooks and maps too, but I haven't been there yet. I'm in Falls Church, so maybe we should get together sometime. [ May 20, 2002, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Lawyer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltie Lad Posted May 21, 2002 Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 Thanks for the advice and personal emails, guys. I'm very proud of the community we have built. I was watching a rebroadcast of Band of Brothers tonite. At the end the narrator speaks of how easy things were in America at the close of the war and asks if the civilians will ever be able to comprehend the meaning of freedom like the men who served in places like Normandy, Holland, the Bulge and Hagenau. How appropriate for me, as my girlfriend, who was also watching and had just asked me during dinner why I felt the need to spend a month wandering battlefields in Europe, just looked at me with eyes that showed greater understanding. It's all about understanding, ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Originally posted by Kiltie Lad: It's all about understanding, ain't it?And there I was, thinking it was all about having a pint at The George... Which I'll be happy to organise when you are over here. Reading this thread I decided to do a cycling tour of Normandy end of June. Damn, now I have to get fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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