Agua Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Don't know if this will be of any assistance at all, but here's a link to a modelling site with photos of quite a few of the soviet afv's you were looking for. http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery.htm Some of the galleries provide top down, side and frontal views; others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Thanks Agua, but unless somebody expresses their consent for including them in the game, we cannot use these for various copyright reasons. That's why we're having the modelling contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Ah, but references are references. What you can't use directly you might find some use for as reference (or inspiration) on making your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 Hmmmm..... Well, maybe y'all could contact some of the folks who created the models (is there a name for such folks?) and ask if you could use the photos. You never know. I would imagine a lot of people would just be very proud that their work was included in a super quality game such as CM. If you're interested in pursuing that, I'm an attorney and would be happy to shoot some draft license agreements over to ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Hi Agua! Long time no see, send me an E-mail (Tellermine57@hotmail.com). Missed our nightly gathering! Take care, Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 That'd be modellers I think, Agua We've already contacted a good deal of talented folks out there, some have submitted models, some haven't. If you know some personally that might be interested, by all means feel free to ask them if they want to send something. I believe Dan is pretty familiar with pretty much everything on the Missing Links site for reference purposes, as we're running the modelling contest together with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Those were some realy nice models, do you have to hae the spray gun set up for them to come out that good? Also i have a question about the T-34, what are those 2 barrels on the rear/top of them? I'm assuming they are not fuel tanks, do they carry water for the crew or radiator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 Originally posted by Moon: I believe Dan is pretty familiar with pretty much everything on the Missing Links site for reference purposes, as we're running the modelling contest together with them OOOOOOPpppppssssss......LOL!!! Ah well, I'm sure you'll be happy to know that I will keep you updated on any other brilliantly insightful leads that I develop to assist you guys. Agua out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai: Those were some realy nice models, do you have to hae the spray gun set up for them to come out that good? Also i have a question about the T-34, what are those 2 barrels on the rear/top of them? I'm assuming they are not fuel tanks, do they carry water for the crew or radiator?Those models are done by real professionals. Some of the contributors are engineers who can and do build models for a living; other names will be recognized by collectors of WWII armor reference material. Most if not all of the models pictured at the sight have been extensively modified with aftermarket brass detailing, and resin aftermarket or scratch built corrections to the always imperfect (at least to the discerning eye, or dial caliper) out of the box models. Spray gun question: Usually, but not always, the spray gun is used only for the base coat, with the exception of giving the tank a "sun faded" look. I've seen some artificial shadowing done with the air brush, but that's only effective for dioramas where the model will be viewed from a single angle. Most weathering is done using the complementary techniques of washing and dry brushing. Washing a tank involves taking the base color, darkening and thinning it, and then "washing" the entire vehicle with the thinned dark paint. The thinned paint will settle into the recesses of the model giving it depth. You then "dry brush" the raised portion of the model with a lightened version of the base coat - increasing the illusion of depth. There are other weathering techniques also but those two are the fundamentals. The following picture is Mark Fergel's T34/76 from the missing links site: I'm guessing the following weathering techniques were used on this model (there may be more) 1. Washed 2. Dry brushed 3. "Gucci dusting" -the dirty look on the lower half of the vehicle. 4. possibly lightly oversrayed to give the paint a "sun-faded" look) 5. Brushed with pastel chalks to give it the dusty look on the rest of the vehicle. ..And the artist may have some tricks up his sleeve I don't know about. BTW those are fuel tanks. At least they were diesel driven. Crews often removed the external fuel tanks from their vehicles. They may have been filled with diesel but they were still a dangerous way of extending the tanks range. Hope this was useful. Cheers Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Thanks! Thats insane that those are fuel tanks, at first glane i always thought them to be fuel tanks but then looking at the location i'd quickly change my mind thinking that would just be crazy to have fuel tanks right there. I can see why the crews would take them off. Will the fuel tanks on the T-34's be modeled in CMBB? Will they be more vulnerable to sharp shooter fire of even rife fire? Also did the T-34's have a problem with getting their fuel tanks shot at? And if so what and how much detriment to the operation of the vehicle did it cause? I assume it would be bad, but to what extent and how common i have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Originally posted by Agua: Don't know if this will be of any assistance at all, but here's a link to a modelling site with photos of quite a few of the soviet afv's you were looking for. http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery.htm Some of the galleries provide top down, side and frontal views; others don't.Given that the model competition is jointly sponsored by Missing Lynx and Battlefront I think Kwazydog would be very well aware of the content on that website. {edited to go 'DOH', Moon already pointed that out} Mace [ February 15, 2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Mace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai: Also did the T-34's have a problem with getting their fuel tanks shot at? And if so what and how much detriment to the operation of the vehicle did it cause? I assume it would be bad, but to what extent and how common i have no idea.Small arms fire poses no harm to diesel fuel that the Soviets used. You can unload clip after clip into the stuff with no effect. Now a larger calibre gun may fare better, and any flame weapons would probably be very dangerous. Flares work too. Small arms can only poke holes in the barrels, lessening the tank's operational use. Thats not in CMBO's scale however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leakyD Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it soviet doctrine to NOT enter combat w/ full external fuel tanks? I believe these fuel tanks were for extending the range for roadmarches/etc. At least that's the modern soviet use for them is (well, from what i was taught in my AT weaponry classes in the US Army (late 80's) - ie; shoot at 'em all ya want , kid. ain't nuttin' gonna happen!). Maybe the soviets had to learn a few lessons first in WWII before it became doctrine to enter combat with their external tanks empty! Anyone have any clarifying info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai: Thanks! Thats insane that those are fuel tanks, at first glane i always thought them to be fuel tanks but then looking at the location i'd quickly change my mind thinking that would just be crazy to have fuel tanks right there. I can see why the crews would take them off. Will the fuel tanks on the T-34's be modeled in CMBB? Will they be more vulnerable to sharp shooter fire of even rife fire? Also did the T-34's have a problem with getting their fuel tanks shot at? And if so what and how much detriment to the operation of the vehicle did it cause? I assume it would be bad, but to what extent and how common i have no idea.It was my understanding (no references, at work) that those auxiliary diesel tanks were similar if not identical to 55-gallon drums. It was also my understanding that they could be remotely dropped from inside the vehicle, and that in fact it was one of the first things done when receiving fire or entering a battle (similar to an airplane ditching the drop tanks before entering the combat zone). I want to say that they were used primarily for extending range on the road march up to the front, not during the actual battle; as such, BTS could certainly say that the tanks fall outside the tactical nature of CMBB. If they are included, then BTS will have to model their vulnerability while still on the tank, come up with an animation sequence for dropping them, etc. Given that CMBO doesn't doesn't currently model the vulnerability or detachability (is that a word?) of a Crocodile trailer, I wouldn't be surprised if these auxiliary fuel tanks were left out of CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leakyD Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it soviet doctrine to NOT enter combat w/ full external fuel tanks? I believe these fuel tanks were for extending the range for roadmarches/etc. At least that's the modern soviet use for them is (well, from what i was taught in my AT weaponry classes in the US Army (late 80's) - ie; shoot at 'em all ya want , kid. ain't nuttin' gonna happen!). Maybe the soviets had to learn a few lessons first in WWII before it became doctrine to enter combat with their external tanks empty! Anyone have any clarifying info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 All the information I've read about the T-34 definitely states that the barrels were for spare fuel. Actually, they do not seem to appear as a part of the standard equipment until the T-34/85 model. I am not sure about the remote drop capability, but I was also under the impression that they were put only on long road marches. The way they are attached to the hull (with belts) also suggests they were not really intended to be constantly carried around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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