This picture is why we need a convoy command

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

Another thing, in all seriousness, some convoy SOPs as to how to react if a vehicle comes under fire would be necessary if CM is ever going to be at all realistic (which it isn't now, not even close). As it is now, if the lead tank gets blasted you can see vehicle after vehicle keep piling up into the bottleneck from behind, as they all try to execute their separate movement orders without the slightest clue of the fact that they're supposed to be in a convoy. It would work a lot better if convoys, and possibly other higher level task forces, were 'understood' by the system and able to be given SOP behaviors as a unit.

Proper spacing of the vehicles in column would take care of that. Perhaps sending 3-4 vehicles first, out of say a dozen, then next turn another 3-4 and so on. Maybe even give the point group a hunt command, so they all stop the moment they come under fire. Follow ups can use move.

[Thomm]

In an ideal world, the convoy formation would be a result of the pathfinding algorithm. If the roads are favored over open ground and the road is reasonably straight than it should suffice to set one desired endpoint per vehicle to make the convoy move in unison.

Regards,

Thomm

[acrashb]

To date, this thread has been viewed by about 620 discrete IP addresses, with many repeat views (taking the total to about 750). This is from my web server (where the picture is stored) logs.

That speaks to a significant interest - while I'm sure the Peng threads get more total hits, 'convoy' has a, shall we say, broader appeal.

I expect 'bumping' comes from the same issues that cause LOS to ignore non-fixed objects - and it's a significant CPU issue, so we won't see any change (nor any strong need for change - 'move' and some inter-vehicle gap does the job). Pathfinding, however, is something that CM is good at - someone did a maze a few months ago, and CM managed to thread vehicles through it given just an endpoint. So auto-plotting road movement _could_ be in the cards.

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CMplayer:

As it is now, if the lead tank gets blasted you can see vehicle after vehicle keep piling up into the bottleneck from behind, as they all try to execute their separate movement orders without the slightest clue of the fact that they're supposed to be in a convoy.

Proper spacing of the vehicles in column would take care of that. Perhaps sending 3-4 vehicles first, out of say a dozen, then next turn another 3-4 and so on. Maybe even give the point group a hunt command, so they all stop the moment they come under fire. Follow ups can use move.</font>

[Kingfish]

Anyone who would like to see a good example of why we need a convoy command should d/l and play 'Mortain' as the Germans. The size of the map and vehicle count should give a good indication of what's in store for us in CMBB.

[MCJuan]

Fair computer behavior in the convoy issues.

The pathfinding of the CM actual engine looks enough to me.

Maybe after a convoy of my vehicles get smashed by ennemy planes I rather don't put all my eggs in the same basket; normally I do select a group of vehicles parked around a road and give them the order to go straigth the usual 1000 M.

Most of them will get the route and some will go crossing the country, looking for a protected path near the trees or any other cover.

Hope you understand my english.

[Thomm]

Originally posted by aaronb:

Pathfinding, however, is something that CM is good at - someone did a maze a few months ago, and CM managed to thread vehicles through it given just an endpoint. So auto-plotting road movement _could_ be in the cards.

I agree. I would suggest the following test: move a group of vehicles down a road with a few wiggles and kinks, but following a general direction. Make the surrounding terrain dangerous in terms of bogging down, because this is when the vehicles should stay on the road in the first place. Now give some vehicles a Move order from one end of the road to the other, with a slight offset depending on the starting position. Maybe the vehicles will move in a column, anyway? (I cannot do the test myself, because a friend has my CD.)

Regards,

Thomm

[DEF BUNGIS]

My gosh it has probably been at least a year since I posted here on the boards.

I never had a game before CM that I still played

after 6 months. CM is going on 2 years for me now.

If there is any feature in CMBB I would like to see, it would be something to this affect.

Nothing special, just some type of follow command to ease the vehicle movement order proccess.

I remember it being requested here on the boards

during the first couple of patches for CM.

It's still a great idea. And it does not take away the micro-management aspect for the player.

If we can plot movements to infinity, then there's no argument that a follow command

"FOR VEHICLES" would make CMBB any less realistic.

[McAuliffe]

Originally posted by Rollstoy:

I agree. I would suggest the following test: move a group of vehicles down a road with a few wiggles and kinks, but following a general direction. Make the surrounding terrain dangerous in terms of bogging down, because this is when the vehicles should stay on the road in the first place. Now give some vehicles a Move order from one end of the road to the other, with a slight offset depending on the starting position. Maybe the vehicles will move in a column, anyway? (I cannot do the test myself, because a friend has my CD.)

Regards,

Thomm

I did this test several times and the TacAI will only deviate from the plotted path when there are obstacles in its way (trees, water rough...) Even when you plot your waypoints only a meter from the road, the tank will continue to plough regardless through the deep mud instead of taking the road.

Pathfinding algorithm would be a little be too complex to code. Besides, you would see a lot of unexpected reactions of your vehicles, I guess

I rather prefer, that I have some control over my vehicles or units and that they just stick to the waypoints that their leader has chosen.

I would like to point out, that the suggested "Follow the leader group command" would also apply to infantry : Lock a complete pln, designate the leader and plot his waypoints. The rest of the bunch will take the shortest way to the leader's starting point and will follow in his footsteps... how about that to get those jumbled up reinforcements organised ?

[CMplayer]

There are two separate main ideas here and I think both are important:

1) the ability to copy a set of waypoints and paste them to another unit, or a group-clicked set of units.

2) convoy, or group, movement where units follow a leader, but also stop if it stops in the middle of a turn.

Either of these would solve the question raised at the beginning of the thread, but both would be useful to have for different needs.

[steinitz]

A simple version of the "master path" idea would involve plotting paths from units to the initial point of the master path by making the final click inside a small circle that would be drawn around this point.

It would still be up to players to plot movement to the initial point in a way that ends up moving the units along the master path in the desired order and with the desired separation between them.

[ April 17, 2002, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: steinitz ]

[acrashb]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

There are two separate main ideas here and I think both are important:

1) the ability to copy a set of waypoints and paste them to another unit, or a group-clicked set of units.

2) convoy, or group, movement where units follow a leader, but also stop if it stops in the middle of a turn.

Either of these would solve the question raised at the beginning of the thread, but both would be useful to have for different needs.

Well-put. Of the two, 1) would be easier to implement (speaking as a former programmer). 2) would involve fundamental changes in vehicles being aware of each other _before_ impact. So we can hold out for 1. Comments? Esp. from Moon or another BTS in-the-know person?

[acrashb]

With bones being tossed literally left, right and centre, I was wondering if any help for this issue was in CMBB. Failing that, is it on the wish-list for the engine rewrite? I just finished playtesting "Tettingen 45" - which should be available on Der Kessel shortly - and ran into the same issues - having to advance a large number of vehicles on roads (due to snow)...

[NIX]

My 2 cents-the lack of a "follow the leader" command is a major drawback. Therefore I mainly play infantry only. It bothers me that I am missing out on the many cool aspects of motorized combat in CM. I just don't care to micro-manage quite that much. Not only that I have trouble, but the AI is terrible at manuevering its vehicles.