AH Tobruk to CMAK - the gaming circle complete.

[Eightball]

Having played some of the smaller scenarios I must say how much I enjoy CMAK so far.

Part of the enjoyment comes with the realization that the first true wargame I played face-to-face (addictively so) was AH's Tobruk. I was drawn to the scale of the game...single tanks/artillery pieces and squads of men. It seemed so much more personal than games like Panzer Leader; each decision could mean the loss of a trooper who would then have to be manually scratched from the platoon roster. Many a skirmish was had on the desert battlefield that my kitchen table transfromed into on Saturdays.

CM-et al has always been able to maintain that personal/tactical feel and now I have been brought full circle.

Great game..as always.

MSD

[MrSpkr]

Ditto.

Except, I don't ahve CMAK -- but still, you get the idea.

Ditto.

Steve

[Airborne]

Agreed, 8. Tobruk was one of my first wargames--bought in the mid 70's I guess. Been waiting for a similar computer version for years--still waiting but it's ordered.

[Russkly]

Tobruk was my first one too - 12th birthday present from an aunt in 1979.

My best friend and I played it all through the ensuing school summer holidays - marvellous!

Those IIIjs were absolutely lethal compared to the IIIhs, and a couple of Grants could hold up a tank assault for ages.

And what about the 88s at any range against all the Cruisers?!

Fond memories of highly-detailed and extensively-researched tactical-level wargaming, and I can't wait for my copy of CMAK to drop on my doorstep.

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Eightball et al

Many a skirmish was had on the desert battlefield that my kitchen table transfromed into on Saturdays.

CM is a great blend of all that I enjoyed playing both Board Wargames (SL/ASL PzB/PzL etc) and Miniatures the only things I really miss are the social interaction (ie arguing ) of a face-to-face game and the actual tactile thrill of rolling those little plastic blocks with dots on them

[ December 05, 2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Gary Barr ]

[-E]

Man are you guys behind the loop. Depending on how you look at it. My computer circle was complete from Kampfgruppe to CMBB. I'm on my second lap now! *grin*

[Blazing 88's]

Yes I too have AH Tobruk. Actually purchased one in 79 and was given it as a gift as well a few years later... More counters that way.

I am really looking forward to CMAK for that reason.

I just stumbled across this a few weeks ago on another thread. Totally blew me away, I didn't realize my favorite board game TOBRUK had been redone. The company is called Critical Hit: www.criticalhit.com/index.html

They call the system ATS, Advanced Tobruk System... I think I might just support these people for a good bookshelf filler.

There will be good scenarios for CMAK conversion in it as well.

[ December 05, 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Blazing 88's ]

[GJK]

Get cranking scenario authors!

[Airborne]

yeah, the German 88's were very deadly. That new remake of Tobruk does look pretty cool. Hmmmm...

[DevilDog]

MrSkr wrote:Except, I don't ahve CMAK

I got it in Houston yesterday...

[Agua]

Tobruk and Anzio are sitting up in my attic. Actually pulled Anzio out a year or so ago to play with the wife (at her request, believe it or not). After hunting for about 15 minutes for the fourth counter of "X" type, I was reminded why I prefer puter wargames and put the thing back where it sits to this day.

You can't get the deep understanding of the mechanics that come from knowing how all the numbers and rules interrelate from playing CM, but those old boardgames were just crude attempts to simulate that which CM does so much more believably and effortlessly.

[von Lucke]

Originally posted by Agua:

You can't get the deep understanding of the mechanics that come from knowing how all the numbers and rules interrelate from playing CM, but those old boardgames were just crude attempts to simulate that which CM does so much more believably and effortlessly.

True --- but back in the day, I didn't have no fancy silicon chip to do my To Hit rolls and check my Penetration Tables for me.

Many was the Sunday afternoon I brow-beat my brother into a game of Tobruk. The game actually spurred my interest in WW2, as the first book I ever read on the subject came about from playing that game.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by DevilDog:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> MrSkr wrote:Except, I don't have CMAK

I got it in Houston yesterday... </font>

[Wallybob]

It is still on my bookshelf today. Along with a bunch of Avalon Hills stuff. Tobruk, Afrika Korps, ASL, SL, Panzer Leader, Panzer Blitz.

Tanks for the memories.

[GJK]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DevilDog:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> MrSkr wrote:Except, I don't have CMAK

I got it in Houston yesterday... </font>

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Russkly:

Tobruk was my first one too - 12th birthday present from an aunt in 1979.

Those IIIjs were absolutely lethal compared to the IIIhs, and a couple of Grants could hold up a tank assault for ages.

And what about the 88s at any range against all the Cruisers?!

Oh YES!!

It was my first wargame too.

I distinctly remember being on the receiving end of those Damn Pz IIIJ's specifically. They were hard to kill and had a VERY good main weapon in that game. In that Pz IIIJ scenario which ever it was, :confused: the Allies really did not have a chance against the power and amour of the dreaded Pz IIIJs!! I don't recall all the details but I will never forget the Pz IIIJ "Uber Tank!". I remember learnig the hard way when I was 15-16 that all the allied tanks sucked compared to some of the better German tanks. I think the Pz IIIJ sported the Long 50mm and it had a devestating effect on the Allied tanks (Crusaders?) that I had to work with at the time. It was a GREAT game one on one like chess but with more rules and millions of dice rolls! All the folks here who have never rolled the dice 3 or 4 times for EVERY SINGLE round every AFV fired in a Tobruk scenario really have no freakin' idea or appreciation of what a monunental break through CMAK represents to old guys that used to play board games like Tobruk!

-tom w

[aka_tom_w]

wow

there is more on it here:

http://www.criticalhit.com/Tobruk2.html

Originally posted by Blazing 88s:

Yes I too have AH Tobruk. Actually purchased one in 79 and was given it as a gift as well a few years later... More counters that way.

I am really looking forward to CMAK for that reason.

I just stumbled across this a few weeks ago on another thread. Totally blew me away, I didn't realize my favorite board game TOBRUK had been redone. The company is called Critical Hit: www.criticalhit.com/index.html

They call the system ATS, Advanced Tobruk System... I think I might just support these people for a good bookshelf filler.

There will be good scenarios for CMAK conversion in it as well.

[Harold]

Tobruk was a neat game. The maps looked horrid though. Terrain was non-existant and the color of the maps reminded me of pumpkin pie. Oh yeah and the lovely Bofors. Once it acquired you had 40 some dice rolls of shooting to do. Each DR represented one shell. Didn't have to K-kill anything. Just M-kill and F-kill and turn the tank into a pillbox.

[Cull]

Here's my story, again, this time in honor of CMAK.

Friend and fellow military gamer after discovering CMBO: "You remember when we used to spend hours playing Squad Leader and fantasizing about a computer version of it?"

Me: "Hell yes" (Proceeding to make some remark to the effect of "If I'd spent half the time studying textbooks that I had friggin' rulebooks...")

Him: "....it's here."

I went over to his house immediately to see what the hubbub was about, skeptical of course. Then I saw it, and I haven't stopped crapping my pants with joy since.

Though I love the nostalgia, can't say I miss the rulebooks. I still consider the greatest acheivement of computers to be facilitating my gaming hobby. I do kinda miss the dice-rolling, though

Keep 'em coming, BFC! I can't wait to see what's next....but a thousand or so games of CMAK should keep me distracted for awhile.

[aka_tom_w]

Hell YEAH!

CMBO had that impact one me too

AND for change you did not KNOW exactly where every enemy unit was and its EXACT strength and composition! (EFOW is the ONLY way to fly in CMBB and CMAK!)

The lack of Fog of War in Board games was the REAL killer for me, because my friends are all rules lawyers and true professional Min/Max'ers (by calculate EVERY possible odds combination and attack ONLY when an over run or Max attack odds are possible and then pull cheesy moves like retreat forward into my lines because the rule book does not specify that a retreat move as the result of an attack MUST be towards your OWN rear area, turn my successful attack into their "retreat"/advance into my lines to exploit a breakthrough (BECAUSE the rules don't specifically say to CAN'T do it!!)

I Don't miss those days!

Bring on CMAK!

-tom w

Originally posted by Cull (formerly Jack):

Here's my story, again, this time in honor of CMAK.

Friend and fellow military gamer after discovering CMBO: "You remember when we used to spend hours playing Squad Leader and fantasizing about a computer version of it?"

Me: "Hell yes" (Proceeding to make some remark to the effect of "If I'd spent half the time studying textbooks that I had friggin' rulebooks...")

Him: "....it's here."

I went over to his house immediately to see what the hubbub was about, skeptical of course. Then I saw it, and I haven't stopped crapping my pants with joy since.

Though I love the nostalgia, can't say I miss the rulebooks. I still consider the greatest acheivement of computers to be facilitating my gaming hobby. I do kinda miss the dice-rolling, though

Keep 'em coming, BFC! I can't wait to see what's next....but a thousand or so games of CMAK should keep me distracted for awhile.

[ December 06, 2003, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Blazing 88's]

For me, After AH TOBRUK came Steel Panthers and then Steel Panthers-World at War by Matrix games (it's free). This took care of my wargaming needs until I saw CM. The only purchase I made for SPWaW was the Desert Fox 41 Mega Campaign. IMO SPWaW is still a very good game for turn based wargaming. I still have it installed on my older CPU.

Hmmm, Maybe some SPWaW Mega Camp convertions to CMAK are on the way from me, hmmm?

I Have to look into that.

[ December 06, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Blazing 88's ]

[Lt. Badger]

When I was in highschool my best friend had Tobruk and I had Squad Leader. He was a much better boardgame tactician than I was, and I don't think I ever won a single game, but it was tons of fun anyway. We liked the game mechanics of Tobruk better and the maps of Squad Leader better, so worked out a system to play with Tobruk rules on the Squad Leader map - also on the map for Arab-Israeli Wars, I think.

We are still in touch and I just mailed him a CD with the CMAK demo on it - I hope he will buy the full game so we can PBEM!

Lt. Badger

[aka_tom_w]

Here's hopeing your friend becomes another CMAK convert and BFC sells another copy to a new/veteran wargamer.!

-tom w

Originally posted by Lt. Badger:

When I was in highschool my best friend had Tobruk and I had Squad Leader. He was a much better boardgame tactician than I was, and I don't think I ever won a single game, but it was tons of fun anyway. We liked the game mechanics of Tobruk better and the maps of Squad Leader better, so worked out a system to play with Tobruk rules on the Squad Leader map - also on the map for Arab-Israeli Wars, I think.

We are still in touch and I just mailed him a CD with the CMAK demo on it - I hope he will buy the full game so we can PBEM!

Lt. Badger